The Chivalry Chronicles
We discuss topics such as Brotherhood, Masculinity, and Fatherhood. A modern manly approach to chivalry.
Or better yet, Guys Stuff that Guys Do, Cuz We're Guys.
The Chivalry Chronicles
Episode 035 - "Imposter Syndrome"
DLH, David, and Jaime discuss imposter syndrome.
Define: A psychological experience in which a person suffers from feelings of intellectual and/or professional fraudulence.
- As an established professional do you still have imposter syndrome.
- How do you cope with it?
- Is it positive to have these feelings?
- Symptoms of Imposter Syndrome.
Issue a Verdict.
We'll be right back.
SPEAKER_01:If by some chance, some stroke of luck, or some act of God, you have stumbled upon this broadcast, you are listening to The Chivalry Chronicles with your host, Dr. DLH.
SPEAKER_02:I'm a damn doctor!
SPEAKER_01:David. I refuse to not drink during the podcast. And me, Jaime. They need to make podcast equipment a lot more expensive to get some of these clowns off the air. Gather around as we discuss a modern manly approach to chivalry. So I hope you're ready because I know we are. So let's get into it.
SPEAKER_00:Bourbon sound. Come on, man. Yeah, my...
SPEAKER_01:My... My beer didn't open up correctly.
SPEAKER_00:Wow. And my ice melted from my bourbon cup, so you can't hear it. Oh, there it is. This is terrible. This
SPEAKER_01:is a terrible way to start off this podcast. But anyway, we're back. We're back. Coming to you from the friendly confines of the Chivalry Studios, aka my office upstairs, guys. You know, we're all here. How's it going? How's everybody feeling?
SPEAKER_00:Feeling like I shouldn't. really be here. Like I'm not qualified. Yeah. For podcasting.
SPEAKER_01:That's, that's a good topic. David, do you feel qualified to be a podcaster?
SPEAKER_02:Hell
SPEAKER_01:yeah. I've been doing it for a full year now. He's not though. I'm a year in. Yeah. So let's, let's, let's think back, you know, whenever you, I was talking to DLH and I said, let's, let's talk about imposter syndrome. And because I was telling him, I was like, when I graduated from high school and I go off to college, you know, You have that dream where, hey, Jaime, you didn't really pass that class, and so you need to go back to high school and pass it, or else your degree ain't crap. You still need that credit. And so you're in college. You're like, but I'm in college. But you got to come back, man. You got to take this exam. And then you get to the exam, and you don't know anything.
SPEAKER_00:Or you're a fully grown-ass adult. Yes. 37 years old, been in your profession for 12 years, and you have this dream that You suddenly have to go back to high school because there's something you missed. Or college. Or college or
SPEAKER_01:whatever. The one that gave me the most stress is I think I was probably like 35 at the time, wife, two kids, and I need to go back and take this class. And I'm like, but I have a full-time job. How am I going to have to go back to class and live in a dorm and shit? It doesn't make any sense. So what we found is that's imposter syndrome. You don't feel worthy of... Define
SPEAKER_00:it. Just read the definition.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so the definition is psychological experience in which a person suffers from feelings of intellectual and or professional fraudulence. And I think as we're all attending college, we know DLH has got his doctorate, and so his is what, triple now, right? Because you had a bachelor's, you had to get a master's, I assume, and then now you got a doctor. Do you have triple dreams of fraudness?
SPEAKER_00:No, I don't. I think my dreams haven't changed. Now, there's an interesting aspect. If we get into the dream analysis, you're going to be in some position where there is something left undone. You feel unprepared. You're going to be put in that position in some way, shape, or form. It doesn't have to be school. Maybe for some, it's that you can't get a grip on what your life is and your dream goes crazy in that moment and whatever it is you can't get control of it like one of the other ones i think a dream i believe in dream analysis i don't know but i'm assuming have you ever had a dream where you felt like you were sort of either floating or flying but then you lose control you cannot control
SPEAKER_01:yeah
SPEAKER_00:what you're doing right and i believe that that is the same thing that those things get into your your sense of like a loss of control you're no longer steering your own ship right and so i mean i think i have the Those dreams from time to time when I'm there. But I think it's the waking hours where imposter syndrome can still be very real, I think, depending on... where you are. And I wouldn't know about like, maybe for somebody like both of you who are well established already in your, in your careers, do you experience it in your waking hours? And then what does that look like? I'm in flux right now. I'm in transition. So I feel it daily. But before, before I get into that, let me go back to that, that question. Do you feel it like being established in your profession? Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:No, I, I, I feel like I, experience it more while I'm awake, imposter syndrome, than through my dreams. And how does that, what does that look like? Well, for me, for example, so I typically talk with C-suite, C-suite level people at credit unions and so forth. C-suite Sweeney? No, like meaning like, whether it's like the chief lending officer, chief financial officer, that type of stuff. So these are... That's what that's called? C-suite? C-suite, yeah. C-suite Sidney Sweeney? But... Yeah. Yeah. So that is where I'm like, am I out of my element? And it's, it's one of those, it's, it is like a, a very suffocating feeling. And then as soon as you, the, the, the ice bucket hits you, you're in it. Right. And then you just react. And usually it pans out. Okay. I mean, that's, that's the funny part about it is at the end of the day, it usually, well, usually if you do know your shit, then it pans out. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. But well, Would you say that that's how? How do you get yourself out of it?
SPEAKER_01:I essentially just kind of take a deep breath and say, F it. That's really, I mean, that's the most simplistic way to put it. I kind of, I've gone through the same thing you've gone through and I still go through it. I know I call them the kids, right? And the young engineers at work, what I started doing with them, because I told them, I said, look, you're going to go into meetings and you, because you've been out of school a couple of years, you're not going to know everything. I said, and nobody knows everything. everything. I go, but other people know a lot more. I go, before every meeting that I would take them to, I'd bring them into my office. I was like, hey, we're about to leave in a meeting. I leave to go to this meeting in a couple of hours. I was like, let's sit down here for the next 15, 20 minutes. What are you most scared they're going to ask? And let's freaking answer those questions. Because if we have answers to those questions, all of the questions we're not worried about. I'll tell you what I'm afraid they're going to ask, and then you and I figure out an answer right here and there. So when they ask it, we're not Like, oh, shit. You know, we're like, yeah, we thought about that. And here's our solution. You know what I'm saying? And so that's how I got those kids ready because nobody got me ready. You know, they were like, Jaime, go in that meeting. Go take care of that. But, you know, from a reactive standpoint, so you're in that room, right? Yeah. And a question that you didn't prepare for comes through or questions and you walk away feeling like, dang, I should have known that. Right. And that also happens. It happens for me. But what I will say, the beauty in that is if you walk away with that feeling but brush it off really quick into, okay, now I'm going to learn this. So like being thrown to the wolves essentially is how I feel I learn the best. Right. When I was a younger engineer, they would throw me into these meetings. I would handle the meetings. And I'm sitting there at 25 years old, 24 years old meeting with people that are 40 50 years old and they've been doing this for 20 years so you know what I learned quickly is like look I need to know my part really well and if I know that really well I think they'll go easy on me on the construction aspect because they know I'm not a contractor and if I know the code with no specifications and if I know my plans really well I can control that and so luckily I worked with some contractors that were that would understand that, I mean, this kid's just right out of college. He hasn't been doing this shit like we have. And I know one time I was at a job site and I'd already been out of school for a long time. I was already an established project manager and I was working with a contractor that I'd been working with for like eight years. And he saw me as a kid right out of college and I had an EIT with me and he jumps on his ass, like the contractor. And he's like, you know, tell me, Have you been out there digging trenches and putting pipe in the ground? And I was like, okay, hold on. I was like, George, that's, first of all, what kind of question is that? I mean, are we asking you, you know, have you done all the calculations? This meeting isn't about that, about let's see who's got the biggest, you know. And so, but he never treated me like that. You know what I'm saying? It was like, it's just one of those things that I was like, man, I got to step in. And first, you know, like back then. up my you know my EIT because he was like wide-eyed like oh shit you know so it's to me it's like if I can control what I can control then you know I'll kind of fly through the other stuff yeah but that's what I do now with them is what are you most afraid of and let's let's shine a light on it
SPEAKER_00:now that's for your your younger ones who are coming up which is awesome that you do that do you yourself right now with how many years of experience
SPEAKER_01:20 Okay.
SPEAKER_00:So you're well into it, right? Like, like retirements on the,
SPEAKER_01:no, I'm just kidding. First Dan Brown book.
SPEAKER_00:It's not Angels and Demons.
SPEAKER_01:Da Vinci Code. Da Vinci Code. One of those two. Langdon? Professor Langdon? Yeah. He says in that book, he's like, there's an old Buddhist, I guess, proverb or whatever that says, you've solved this before.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You know? And so if you go into any problem, go, you've solved this already, or you've solved this before because your future self has solved this, you know, like a year from now, this is done.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So know that there's an answer. And so when I read it, I was like, I need to start thinking that way. But yeah, even till this day, like I still have, you know, I don't want to say panic attacks, you know, I'm not going to self-diagnose, but you do feel that, that tightness in your chest whenever, you know, you can't figure something out. And with me, it's like, I can't sleep. You know, I wake up and sometimes I wake up at 5 a.m. and just be like, I got to go in the office because I got to get this down on paper. You know, your mind is continually working on the problem. Do you think, because I didn't really start noticing it until I got older, that like that tightness in the chest feeling. I don't recall sensing that whenever I was in my 20s and 30s for that. I've always had
SPEAKER_00:it. Really? Yeah, I think it was. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean, but yeah, maybe.
SPEAKER_01:A lot of hours, 120, 130 hours every two weeks. So you're working a shitload and you're cranking out projects and you're doing it so well that it's second nature. Well, I haven't done that. those type of projects in like eight or nine years. And so when I get those projects now, I'm like, I used to know all this stuff. I need a brush up, man. Can I still do it? You know, it's like that, that kind of weighs on you. And so, like I was saying that having all this experience now is even more of a weight, right? Like you should know. And
SPEAKER_00:so, yeah. And despite your experience, maybe, maybe I shouldn't be in management. Maybe I should be. Yeah. I mean, I think those things can creep in. Right. But I feel it now, like I have, I got my doctorate degree, but I'm trying to find a job using that degree now. And the job market is kind of crazy right now anyway. Oh, yeah. within your application it'll immediately discard you and send you that automated email yeah the keywords yeah and so you you know you got to hit those keywords but even though I know that it's not like I lean on that as a reason for not getting a call for an interview for something right I take that internally that like maybe regardless of the years that I have spent getting the degree and then even the work and all the research and all the all the stuff that I've done over the decades and maybe it's not enough. And then maybe, you know, maybe that is not enough because I'm not enough. And then maybe I don't belong. Maybe this is not my, my field. And I've done all of this for nothing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And that's hard. Yeah. It's
SPEAKER_00:a, it's, it sucks. And then I have to, I think I was telling you before, right? Like I have, I have to give myself like a daily pep talk to get myself out of it. Right. That, you know, like I know who I am. I know what I've done. I'm aware of the the research i've learned along the way yeah i have the information i just need somebody to get beyond that damn ai tool or their initial filtering to just give me a shot and then they'll see that You know, is that true? I don't know. But it's what I have to tell myself every day so that I can keep on applying and keep going. Yeah, I think you have to.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I don't know. Because what's the alternative? If you don't give yourself that daily pep talk, nobody's doing that. You're quitting. Yeah. No attempt equals no results. Yeah, no. DLH is in the restroom splashing water in his face. I'm good enough. I'm strong enough. I'm smart enough. Yeah. And gosh darn it, people like me. What is that? Professor Smiley or something like that. I think you have to. One of the biggest hurdles that I had to get over is somewhere in 2009 when the bubble burst. It burst in 2008 and there was a shitload of layoffs. And then in 2009... the third round of layoffs, I get laid off. And I'm normally a very confident person, you know, and that just freaking, you know, set everything like off kilter for me personally, because it's like, if I'm as good as I think I am, why did I get laid off?
SPEAKER_00:You know what I'm saying? Like,
SPEAKER_01:why was I the one? Why did the whole office say, Jaime, you get the fuck out? And so, you know, What I learned is that for somebody that is as confident as sometimes I act, you know, even though I might not be, doubt, if you introduce just a little bit of doubt with somebody that's really confident, it does a number because it did a number on me. Just a little bit of doubt in your own abilities. And I know that I was probably like a little mini depression in that area because it took me a while to get a job. And I was telling David, I think we had talked about it, and, you know, people, friends would call me brothers. They're like, hey, man, let's go have a beer. I can't. I can't sit there and enjoy a beer with you because I don't have a fucking job. Too much on my mind. I don't have a job. I'll pay for it. No, that makes it worse.
SPEAKER_00:I think I'm there now. Not in, you know, like, not in, like, the financial way because, I mean, I have a job. Yeah. It's just that my job is not dealing with my degree. Yeah. But I do feel the weight of that right now, that every time something comes up, I'm like, I can't because I don't have a job. I need to get a job. I need a job. And I have a job, but it's not the direction I'm going. And so to me, in my mind, there's a part of that that's like, you don't have a job, get a job, get a job. And why haven't I gotten a job? And then that weighs on me. And then I think it gets even harder too, like when... If I'm ever in a situation where I'm amongst other people who are also doctors and they are doing what they're doing, they're teaching, they're in research, they're in government, they're in all of that stuff, and then I have to, I don't know, pretend everything is fine? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That's like in Good Will Hunting. Remember when Robin Williams talked to his colleague and his colleague is a well-known professor and all this and that, and they're just kind of like... looking at Rob Williams cause he's just a regular old professor and they're doing research. And, and so he feels that weight of it. Like, God damn it. I don't want to do that. His situation is different, but I think your own peers and your own colleagues kind of put that weight because my brother and I were talking about this, but you know, I became a partner last year and I, One thing, the whole imposter syndrome is you try to diminish accomplishments because you can tell yourself, well, there's shitload of owners out there. Shitload of owners out there that are Hispanic. Shitload of owners out there that are Hispanic and way younger than you are. You know what I'm saying? So it's just like you kind of psych yourself out with that. Yeah, like what the hell you been doing?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like what have you been doing with your life? Where you been? Where you been? Yeah. Even though that's not exactly true, right? No, it is true. No, there aren't that. I don't think that there are as many. If we broke this down into the percentages, right? And given where you are in your career trajectory at this point, how many Latino males are in your particular position? It's not a high percentage. It's not. What it is, I don't know. But I do know it's not high. Yeah,
SPEAKER_01:I would agree with that. But also, that's kind of where the imposter syndrome comes in. Because then you start seeing, here's what other people are
SPEAKER_00:doing. So that makes me wonder, what the hell? am i doing why can't we why doesn't our mind just let us enjoy stuff for
SPEAKER_01:well what do they say comparison is a thief of joy like rather than just be happy that i'm the owner i'm comparing myself to other owners that are way younger than i am and been doing this long
SPEAKER_00:it's like yeah
SPEAKER_01:it's just be happy in what you are and do you think it's do you think it's healthy to to have those thoughts or do you think it's it's healthy if you do it if you use it positively i I think if it motivates
SPEAKER_00:you into action, yes. But if you use it to brood and further degrade yourself or something, then it's not a good situation, right?
SPEAKER_01:Because it's back to when you're faced with an obstacle, you can other up your game. or just say that doesn't matter. You know what I'm saying? But if you allow that to make you work harder or something like that, then I think that's good. But I guess kind of what starts muddying the waters for me is thinking like, okay, and maybe it's just more so in the financial sense of, okay, well, so-and-so's got this. I should be able to at least have the ability to do the same. Absolutely. And I– the more that I travel outside of the U.S., the more that that kind of has started weighing on me like– I see happiness within a society that doesn't have that same angle as Americans. Oh, no. Americans are super– Very capitalistic. Well, they work their ass to the bone. Yeah. They're workaholics. And so sometimes I have to like– and I haven't figured it out, by the way, but in some sense it's like I want more, but I want more. I'm also looking at it in the sense of finances and what I should be at. Everybody else has their significant other. I don't have one right now. That dual income kind of helps. Yeah, and then you're just kind of looking at what others have that you kind of– it's not even necessarily envy because it's not envy, but I do– Well, I guess it is envy. Yeah, it is envy. I guess it is envy, but it's not like I wish they do worse so that I can do worse. Yeah. Like I'm not trying to outdo them or make them diminish what they've done. Right. But at the same time, how can I get mine? You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I want mine too. Just another way to torture yourself. How come I'm not there
SPEAKER_01:yet? Yeah. But then I, then I also sent, then I also think, okay, well, you know, yeah, there's a lot that I have accomplished. There's a lot for me to be grateful for. And should I really bask more in what I've accomplished? I have or is my drive being for something that's really not going to bring joy, I guess, overall or happiness?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I mean, I think, and then like you're saying, right? Comparison is the thief of joy, right? Because you, even if I compared myself right now to someone who has, I don't know, a position that I think would be desirable professionally and they're younger than me, but if I don't Don't look at all of the other things that got them to where they are versus how I got to where I am. Our life trajectory and struggle has been very different, right? And it's not to take anything away from them. Maybe they were just financially better off from a younger age. Absolutely. Maybe they had better access to certain things that I didn't. They started three steps ahead of you. And like, I mean, honestly, if I look at my life and the fact that there were so many things i believe that worked against me getting to where i am now i think that that is a testament to you know my achievement yeah but i also can't sit in that achievement daily because i don't have a job and i think that once i find a job that i can feel some gratification in doing i might feel momentary joy yeah and then there'll be a new thing that going to come up that like how come you haven't done that yet well that's that's what i was gonna
SPEAKER_01:say it's almost like
SPEAKER_00:when when is enough
SPEAKER_01:enough yeah yeah kind of result and i think you get to a point like i know i did where you kind of stop chasing money right and you start chasing peace you know like 10 years ago it's like you know i counted the companies that there's only like two maybe three companies that i would work for in san and Antonio, because I wanted some autonomy, some just control of what I'm doing. I wanted one boss as opposed to 10 bosses, you know, and, and I'll forego the extra, you know, X amount of money. If I can have this, if I can, you know, if I need to take off at two o'clock because something's up with the kids or the kids are practicing or, you know, now it's not a big deal, right? Cause both our kids are often off. One is off to college and one already graduated. So, but, at the time I was like when you know you're right it's like when is enough enough like I could go get another 10 15 grand but I like my time with my kids or I want to go eat dinner with the family you know what I'm saying and so it came to a point where I was like I could be working my ass off and doing all this but spending time with the kids at this age is more important yeah and I need that so for since both of you have spouses do they do they kind of give you a kick in the nuts and say, come on now. All the time. Get moving. All the time.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. You get over it, whatever. I mean, I think that, especially in finishing my doctorate degree, right, it took me longer than it should have taken. But I think, you know, and not to make excuses, I think I've said it before, but there's something that's in my work ethic that also got in the way of the degree. Because when I have to make money in order to help provide for my family that always winds up coming first yeah and then ultimately there were elements where we needed to make that happen and my degree kind of went on the back burner until we got past whatever time that was and then there were some times where i just hit like a point where i'm i was like i'm done maybe maybe this is not for me like imposter syndrome really sets yeah right and i'm out of my element this is not for me i maybe i just can't do it and and i if i'm being if i'm being honest it's you know like there's a there's a survival instinct in you, right? That if you are faced with a problem, even if you can't quite see the finish line, you know you're going to get there. What is it going to look like? I don't know, but I know I'll be there. My doctorate degree is the only thing I have ever experienced in my life where I didn't know if I would reach there. Really? Yeah. And it was multiple times. And so to get back to your question, there were a couple of those times where I was honestly trying to have the conversation with Victoria about why I was going to quit. Yeah. And she was the one who was like, you're not going to quit. You're going to keep going. All you got to do is get past this particular part, and then you'll see. It'll get better. And we had to have that conversation two different times, probably more, but two big times where I was ready to be done. I was going to quit. And then I saw it through the first time. And then the second time, and it was probably the biggest help for me, is I leaned into spite. Because I was like, if I'm going to quit because of all of this, the bullshit and all the doubters and all the whatever, screw them. And I was like, I'm going to go out on my terms. I'm going to do what I want to do. That's why I parked in your space today. I'm going to write what I want to write. I'm going to present it in the way that I want to present it. And then during that time, even when my dissertation chairperson came through and was like, why don't you do that? I'm like, I don't have time for that. I'm not going to do that. This is what it is. And it was probably the most control I ever felt over that. And it was because I was like, if I'm going to be on my way out, I'm going out on my terms. And that was the push I needed to get me to finish. And all of that stemmed from this conversation with Victoria, who would not let me quit. So yes, there was a kick in the nuts, so to speak.
SPEAKER_01:It's always like that. I know I gave that whole speech that I just did right now to Letty. There's only three covers. She's like, nuh-uh, we don't need you here. She slapped me on the ass. Go on out there and make that money, God damn it. I I said, okay. We don't need you here, bro. We need that check. You better go get them 15
SPEAKER_00:grand. I feel like I can picture that, but I
SPEAKER_01:kind of want to see it. She's like, uh-uh, uh-uh, uh-uh. Mama need a new bag. Oh, man. So I was like, shit. I thought I made a really good speech this time. She's like, nah, motherfucker. Go make that money. The other thing that this article had about imposter syndrome is, or kind of the effects of it, is that you reject praise. And I know we've talked about this before. Have you trained yourself to kind of be more accepting of it? I mean, David, when somebody, or do you still go, man, it's not like that? Yeah, I know I have a hard time with praise, especially if I don't feel like it's sincere. And I think it feels more sincere whenever a person is delivering it to me one-on-one. But also, I also don't feel accomplished unless I felt like it was a big deal. Like if it was like, ah. But you can fake yourself out that it's not a big deal and it was a big deal. Yeah, well, like for example, Guadalupe Peak. Yeah. Yeah, there's effort that you have to put in that, right? And so whenever you finish it, yeah, congratulations. Yeah, I would feel it because I felt it, right, on the way, through that journey. Right. But then there's like, oh, you did a 5K. For me, it'd be like, so? Yeah, but there's people that can't do a 5K. I know, I know, but it starts going into. You've been a bit of a
SPEAKER_00:snob. But it was more than a 5K. And there was a ton of elevation. No, no, no. He's saying if somebody just did a 5K. Yeah,
SPEAKER_01:like whenever I've done a 5K and, you know, at the end, just random people are clapping and telling you good. I'm like, you're lying. You're just you're just saying that. No, because I have a hard time with it. I have a hard time. They don't know where you stand. There's people that. Well, I know that I
SPEAKER_00:like I get it from.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, from
SPEAKER_00:the from the. But from the running community, everybody in the running community is always. Yeah. But see, I don't see it as. They are largely
SPEAKER_01:positive.
SPEAKER_00:I
SPEAKER_01:don't take it as sincere, though. I take it as your hands are already going to move anyway, regardless of
SPEAKER_00:who it was. Well, then maybe that's your perspective. No, it is. That's all I'm talking about. This is going to be– this is as happy as random strangers are going to be for something that you're doing ever.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no. And that's what I'm getting at is from a perspective standpoint and from the imposter syndrome, that's how I– It's that loud? All of you
SPEAKER_00:are lying
SPEAKER_01:to me. I'm not saying it out loud. Go home. In my mind, it's like... Yeah, it's not an accomplishment to me. But yeah, because everybody's going through something different. Even if it is a big deal. Yeah, somebody could have just gotten back from knee surgery or hip surgery, and this is the first thing that they wanted to get to. And so it's a big accomplishment for them. I'm with DLH, and I'm rarely with DLH.
SPEAKER_00:You should always be
SPEAKER_01:with DLH. I do think that I went with... Letty did a bunch of... I did a bunch of... Not the 5Ks, but like... Yoga? No, like shorter runs and shit, like relays and all that shit with her. And then she wanted to do like a half marathon. She said, let's do it. I was like, I ain't doing that shit. Oh, you should do a half marathon. Hell no. And so I said, but I'll go with you. I said, I'll be there. I said, I'll drop you off and I'll sit with the kids and we'll make signs for you. And
SPEAKER_00:then cheer? And
SPEAKER_01:cheer. I would cheer, like whatever, right? But I'll be eating... of tacos too
SPEAKER_00:right
SPEAKER_01:but you know you're right the community is like a running community is very supportive I mean I was it is and I'm not even saying that it's that it's wrong for them to do that but I'm just saying that I think that it's pretty amazing you know that they're that way and and when she did it you know I was like yeah this is because I mean I've never run a half marathon well I guess we kind of did with the Spartan race because it was kind of it was the last yeah it was like 13 The last one was a half marathon. Yeah. But it didn't feel like a half marathon because you have all these obstacles. You don't have to run. You don't have to run and all this and that.
SPEAKER_00:And you kept stopping. Yeah. Well, you might as well. Not me, but. There was no need to run with the Spartan. Yeah. You're going to run and then go wait? Dave kept complaining. Yeah. That's the only thing that kept y'all motivated. To keep going. No, to hurry up and get you to stop. I guess that was motivation. I tell you. If we just hurry up and get this over with. with his stop complaining.
SPEAKER_01:The other thing this article was talking about, about your kind of symptoms of imposter syndrome. And I was like, ah, shit. So what I was doing is a symptom of it is overworking, right? It's like working longer hours, which is what I was doing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, trying to compensate for that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And so I was like, well, shit. It's like here I thought that I'm doing it because I want to be, I want to get the projects out. I want to be the best. But you're doing it or some people do it so that they can't blame that you're not working. He's working his ass off. He's just knowing what the fuck he's doing. So I found it interesting that that was one symptom of it is overworking, doing those longer hours, working harder, excessive hours. I was like, man, I'm like the classic case of fucking imposter syndrome because I did do that. I did work long hours. I did it because we had so many projects and, you know, I know me and my coworker, we'd go eat at 1 a.m. and we're sitting there going, man, we're swamped right now. And it feels like if we stay late every day, you're falling down as well. And all you're doing is like pressing up against the walls and slowing down a little bit. But as soon as you go home, it's like you let go and you're still falling. And so I was like, man, that sucked for me because I thought I'm doing it because I know it's still something of it. You're trying to earn your keep. Yeah. Yeah. I remember one thing that was real refreshing for me was ultimately hearing that my colleagues didn't complete certain projects just as I didn't complete that project. Oh, yeah. Because at first I'm like working and working on it. And then I was making a lot of progress. Right. And then it was like, okay, show me. what you've done thus far and it was myself and my other colleagues that are showing their work and I'm like oh I'm actually I'm actually slightly ahead and here I thought here I thought I don't belong like they're knocking all this stuff out and I'm I felt like I had barely got started but then when the open book was there it was like oh I misery loves company dog my wife started a new a new job and she's kind of handles all science curriculum for the entire K through 12, right? And she's a super overachiever. And, and I was telling her, I was like, your coworkers are really going to hate you. Cause you're going to come in and start kicking ass. And then these people that have just been chilling for years, they're gonna be like, what the fuck? You know, like, like, why is this person coming in? You know, just upsetting the balance, you know? Cause her boss loves her. Cause she gets shit done like that. Like let these, one of those people that if you don't give her a deadline, she gets it done as soon as possible. If you don't give me a deadline, I ain't got a deadline. It's like, I'm a chill. It's like, until you tell me when you need it, then I'm gonna start working. Yeah. So it's one of those things. With her, it upsets the balance. She does so much. You know what I'm saying? So much more than the other people. Her boss loves her, but I'm pretty sure there's some people there that are like, man, since we hired her. We need to remind her we're using Greg Abbott's curriculum. Some children left behind. Damn. Damn. Oh, shit. All right, so. What are we going to board approve? Coping mechanisms of imposter syndrome?
SPEAKER_00:Well, what are coping mechanisms?
SPEAKER_01:Accept praise,
SPEAKER_00:you know? Yeah, but that's, I mean, I don't know that you can change that about somebody. Yeah, you can. Absolutely, you can. You can just say, thank you. Yes, but that's not exactly because I do that, but that's just because it's cordial. Somebody gives you... To you, it was insincere. That's why I don't accept that. It's not that... that it's not sincere but even if somebody sincerely congratulates you but you won't allow yourself to well allow
SPEAKER_01:yourself
SPEAKER_00:that's the thing how do you get there how do you get to where you can allow yourself to do that even i mean mofo we just said i was in i was at my own uh graduation here right the celebration's supposed to be about me and i and i struggled with that just we we just told you earlier the focus to be on me
SPEAKER_01:at the beginning of the podcast i'm good enough I'm smart
SPEAKER_00:enough. And should that be done daily in the mirror?
SPEAKER_01:And doggone it,
SPEAKER_00:people like
SPEAKER_01:me. Yeah. What's your evidence? I don't have any. I'm sorry. I mean, you're still
SPEAKER_00:married. Well, that means one person likes me. Because
SPEAKER_01:she's your best friend.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. My best friend likes me. Did
SPEAKER_01:I tell y'all, man, did I tell y'all there was a comment on on the Spotify or something? No. About that episode?
SPEAKER_00:No. Was it a good one?
SPEAKER_01:It was funny. It's this person said, Hyman needs to quit using this podcast as therapy and go to therapy. And I'm going to tell you right now, I read that and I said, And you internalized it? I said, you know what? I'd like to make an announcement. I'm never going to therapy. Try to make me go to rehab. Yeah, because I was like, how does this person know that this isn't a positive way for me to freaking work through things? Well, because DLH wrote it. Yeah, it was DLH. Please. And it was the best friend episode. That's funny. Yeah, so just so you know, no relationships were harmed during that episode. I'm still married 26
SPEAKER_00:years but that's because 26 can I really start over again no
SPEAKER_01:so I'm just saying you know when my wife was like yeah I know you've said that a long time
SPEAKER_00:ago and
SPEAKER_01:a lot
SPEAKER_00:but you know I mean those things are it was fun to talk about but you're you know like the way that your marriage has evolved it works otherwise it wouldn't have evolved
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think it works because if you're honest, you know, if you just go, this is how I feel.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. But, you know, like yours has evolved that way. Mine has evolved the way it has. And that's what informs, I think, the stance that we have at this moment for that. Yeah. So you're doing it out of fear? Thankfully, I would say thankfully at home is the, it's definitely the one space I don't feel like an imposter. Really? Which is great. That's my home base. That's my safety. My wife and my kids. You don't feel
SPEAKER_01:like an imposter dad? I
SPEAKER_00:don't. Really? No, I don't. So you think you're perfect. I don't. You think you're better than us? But there are. But you know what I have done is like whenever I don't know whether the things that I have done over, I don't know, a certain period of time, maybe when I do have some doubt in there because I do want to be a good parent, I ask my kids, do you feel like I have provided you?
SPEAKER_01:They're going to lie to you, dog. While you're
SPEAKER_00:holding a belt? But there's no judgment in that. I'm just asking them. Is there anything that you feel I should be doing differently?
SPEAKER_01:And the right answer would get you ice
SPEAKER_00:cream. I think they're usually pretty good with giving feedback on some stuff. Really? I never ask them that. I ask them that. They some
SPEAKER_01:lying sons of bitches. Because we
SPEAKER_00:Because we try to have some real conversations about things. And I understand that I'm not always going to be right. Oh, you're never right. We make errors. So
SPEAKER_01:there you go. So what are we approving? Yeah, imposter syndrome. What are we approving? We may just have to do a two-to-one vote.
SPEAKER_00:I don't know, man. I'm just lucky to be here.
SPEAKER_01:Imposter syndrome. It happens. Be aware of it. Find some coping mechanisms. And, you know, read a book.
SPEAKER_00:Maybe have some bourbon. Calm down. Chill out a little bit. Have a beer. To smooth out the edges. Yeah, start a podcast. Yeah, because working with these two fools will make you feel a little better about yourself. These motherfuckers don't know what they're doing. I got a doctorate at least.
SPEAKER_01:These motherfuckers
SPEAKER_00:don't even have masters. I mean, they got a job. Ah, but so what? That's not important. All
SPEAKER_01:right, there you go. Word approved. And we'll see you next time.
