The Chivalry Chronicles
We discuss topics such as Brotherhood, Masculinity, and Fatherhood. A modern manly approach to chivalry.
Or better yet, Guys Stuff that Guys Do, Cuz We're Guys.
The Chivalry Chronicles
Episode 030 - "The Agents of Change"
DLH, David, and Jaime discuss agents of change from Malcolm Gladwell's "The Tipping Point: How Little Things Can Make a Big Difference."
Gladwell describes the "three rules of epidemics" (or the three "agents of change") in the tipping points of epidemics:
- Connectors are the people in a community who know large numbers of people and who are in the habit of making introductions. A connector is essentially the social equivalent of a computer network hub.
- Mavens are "information specialists", or "people we rely upon to connect us with new information."[4] They accumulate knowledge, especially about the marketplace, and know how to share it with others.
- Salesmen are "persuaders", charismatic people with powerful negotiation skills. They tend to have an indefinable trait that goes beyond what they say, which makes others want to agree with them.
- The guys discuss different examples of each type.
Issue a verdict.
if by some chance some stroke of luck or some act of god you have stumbled upon this broadcast you are listening to the chivalry chronicles with your host dr dlh
SPEAKER_00:i'm a damn doctor
SPEAKER_03:David. I
SPEAKER_05:refuse to not drink during the podcast.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. And me, Jaime. They need to make podcast equipment a lot more expensive to get some of these clowns off the air. Gather around as we discuss a modern manly approach to chivalry. So I hope you're ready because I know we are. So let's get into it.
SPEAKER_02:There we go. Finally. Little fizzle. Just a little fizzle. Anyway,
SPEAKER_03:David was about to give us this long, elaborate lie about how he got closest to the pen. Tell us that lie again. No,
SPEAKER_05:there's no lie here. The only thing that was lying, it was lying about eight inches away from the pen. Bullshit.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah,
SPEAKER_05:I'm dead serious. On a par three, I hit the ball. Do we have video confirmation? Yes. Well, no, not video. Of him using a cannon. No, you got Pete and Pedro who can verify that. I actually played really good, or the whole team played pretty good, and that's because our A player wasn't able to make it. Ah.
SPEAKER_03:Did y'all pencil whip that shit?
SPEAKER_05:No, we didn't need to. We didn't need to, but that said, we didn't place top three, but we came in fourth, which was really surprising.
SPEAKER_03:Well, that's what I'm asking. Like, were people any good at this?
SPEAKER_05:I don't remember the scores. I know I took pictures of it, of the scoreboard and such, just so I could keep up with the tallies that we're doing between the alumni associations. But... Yeah, whenever I saw us on fourth place, I figured we were middle of the pack. And whenever I saw that we were in fourth, I was like, dang, that's pretty good. And then Pete ended up getting the longest drive. What? Now, come on, dog. What? Go ahead. Get your words. No, I'm not going to say anything further. No comment. I'll let him speak for himself. Okay, that's
SPEAKER_01:a little shady.
SPEAKER_04:Way to bait the audience and not come through. All right. Sorry. So let's get to this episode. Not a narc. Oh, well, that implies now there's something to be told on. No, maybe. Let the man speak for himself. Yeah, but now you made him look bad and you're not going to give any of the details. Pete is a good cook. What does
SPEAKER_05:that
SPEAKER_00:have
SPEAKER_03:to do? He's a maven, I guess, right? He's a maven.
SPEAKER_02:Well,
SPEAKER_05:it's a good... Good segue.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So let's get to the topic. I was telling the guys that Malcolm Gladwell, which is a great author, he has a bunch of really great books. One of them is The Tipping Point. And in The Tipping Point, he talks about how people can be described as these three categories. One is a connector. People are in a community who know large numbers of people and who are in the habit of making introductions, right? And we know all these people, right? And you may not see them as a connector or something, but you know that's what they do. The other is a maven, is an information specialist, people who rely upon to connect us with new information. These are the people that you go to for just about anything, right? Think about when you were in college and your car is making a sound. Like, who did you call? I mean, you'd probably call your dad, right? or somebody that knows something about cars, right? So that's a maven. And it doesn't have to be just cars. So there's different mavens for different things. And the third one is a salesman, which are persuaders, charismatic people that have negotiating skills and everybody knows those. Which one did you want to tackle first, DLH?
SPEAKER_04:I don't know. I guess the hardest one for me to, I guess, give any details and recognize would be the connectors. Really? Well, you just gave us a story about a connector. Yeah, you gave us a whole story about a connector. I have one. I have one person, one story. And
SPEAKER_05:he connected you to other people, and you have yet to define another connector from that?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I have yet to find another.
SPEAKER_03:Well, think about people that– so usually in family dynamics, right, it's kind of sad, but whenever somebody passes away, it kind of breaks up the family, right? Like in my family, my grandmother was– She connected everybody, right? She brings everyone together. And when she passed away, it just kind of splintered everything. Exact same scenario. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Well, I mean, I guess maybe this is it because I hadn't thought about this and this topic until we just brought it up, right? So it does bring to mind, though, for me, how many people... Correct. Correct. he brings that up. Oh, you should really contact. And he'll give you the name of the person, the department they're in their phone or like whatever it is and contact this person and you should start there. Right. And if you need a resource before you do that, go check out this website or whatever. So he's a little bit, I guess that would be partially Maven too. Yeah. But anyway, he, he will make that connection and then is also willing to, I think depending on who and all that stuff to make the introduction.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_04:Um, anyway, yeah. Now I got to think about all the other people I know and see if...
SPEAKER_03:Okay, well then, I mean, we can move on to another one. Salesmen. Like charismatic people, people that... I was telling a story that when I was at this company, they gave me a brand new kid right out of college. He was so honest that he was almost endearing, right? He's like, hey, I don't know that, but I'll figure it out type thing. And that attitude I loved. But I take him to meetings and then... He was really good at getting people to kind of drop the, you know, like, hey, how's it going? Hey, sir, we're going to meet. You know what I'm saying? You just kind of get them to laugh because he was self-deprecating sometimes, you know, because he was kind of a bigger person. You know, he was like a little over three bills. So he would do something to say something about himself. Yeah, to lighten it up. And then, man, but once you got him in front of somebody and say, man, we need to close this deal or we need to get this client. he would do it. Like he was so good at it way better than I was. And so me, you know, I, I kind of, if you're good at something, I'm like, go ahead, like go at it, go get that deal done. You know what I'm saying? Because I know my strengths and my weaknesses. And if you have somebody that's way better at it than you, I'm, you know, I'm not ashamed to go, Hey, go handle that, you know, but that's the, the salesman. And I think, um, a lot of that is, it's just people, um, Like, I think my son is that way. He has all these friends, you know, he makes friends. We went to go to the driving range, speaking of golf, this morning, right? And we just get up there, it's me and him, and we're just kind of chit-chatting. And then the guy next to Joaquin on the other side just starts talking to Joaquin. Just, this is a, you know, 45-year-old man, you know what I'm saying? Like... nothing in common and they just strike up a conversation i was like uh i guess i'll leave y'all too you know what i'm saying like i thought this is gonna be like a father-son thing but it can take you home too i'm out of here so i was like i want to go get a beer no it wasn't like that but it was it was funny but he he has that he has that gift with people and he's had it since he was a baby right like he would just he just goes up to people hey you How's it going? Like, you know, no kind of, no shyness, none of that. Like he's afraid to pick up a phone. He will pick up the phone. Like we were looking for somewhere to play golf and he's like, dad, you want me to call these places? Like, yeah, call those. But, and he did, he was like, yeah, I talked to so-and-so over here. And he said that I was like, God, man, he's like, and this was like last year. So it's not like, it's just getting better, you know, the way he is with people. So, I mean, I, I think that's, Cause I, I mean, I'm, I have to work at it. You know what I'm saying? And I have to like kind of ready myself to talk to people and not, and I could tell the EITs at work, the little kids at work. I mean, you have to work at it. It's not something that comes naturally to some people. Some people it does. Jose was my coworker, my son. They're, they're good at it. Let these uncle who's knows everybody and just beloved by everybody. But other than, you know, the rest of us have to work at it. Any salesman? I mean, you're a salesman. right? Yeah. David, that's pretty much your job. So, I mean, how do you do it? Like, does it come natural? Did you have to work at it?
SPEAKER_05:It's a little bit of both because there's, there's, uh, times where I have that attitude of, I want to meet, interact with people. And then there's the times that you're kind of like, stay away from me. Uh, in fact, whenever I, I do, I do travel, uh, of course for my role while I'm working, I'm on, or I need to be on, uh, but, Whenever it's the tail end of the night and I need to get something to eat and I'll walk into a restaurant by myself essentially to have dinner, I pivot. That's whenever I choose what am I feeling today. Like I want to be around people, I'll go sit at the bar and spark up random conversations with folks and or I'll choose a table in the corner and just chill and read stuff off my phone while I'm eating. Yeah. So the thing that really gives you the advantage in, in sales is just sparking interest in the other person. So finding out something about that person and continuing, continually digging into it.
SPEAKER_03:Correct.
SPEAKER_05:And just expressing that interest and showing it with your, with both your body language as well as your verbal. Oh, tell, tell me about that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And just getting them to pull out and, Pull that out and talk.
SPEAKER_03:And it sounds cheesy, but it does work. You know, the whole turn into someone, you know, having an open, like your body language being open, like you're facing them, you're looking at them. You say their name, like people love hearing their name. People love talking about themselves, you know, that type of stuff. And so it sounds really cheesy. And I tell the guys, I was like, I know it does. But... It works. Because sometimes people don't know you're doing it. You
SPEAKER_05:know what I'm saying? Yeah. And I think the more natural– I have a boss that is phenomenal whenever it comes to just small talk. Really? And it seems like he's in– it almost seems like he's a renaissance man because it's like, oh, you– You own a wine factory? Oh, I do my own grapes in my backyard. And then we're having a beer, and then he's like, yeah, I have hops, and I took those, and blah, blah, blah. And then he's just dabbling in all these pieces, but showing enthusiasm in the subject that that person expresses to him. And then he'll remember things. So when I first started working there, that was about maybe four months in. And I had a conversation with him real quick at the airport before we both departed on our own way. And he was just asking what was going on in my personal life and stuff like that. And I said, oh, well, I'm about to buy a house. Very short conversation. Well, the timeframe that I told him that I was going to buy a house, I remember him calling me that last week of July randomly. Hey, David, uh, how's the house thing going? And it was like, man, he remembered that? Whenever somebody shows you that they care and they have an interest in you, people will open up. He's great at that. He's that person you want that if there's a big dining table, you kind of want to center him in the middle. What was that show? Larry David? Curb Your Enthusiasm? There was that episode where they're talking about the guy that sits in the middle that Essentially keeps the conversation going, and then they were debating about, hey, yeah, get that person out of here. So he's that person. And it's interesting to see, and I've learned some cues that I leverage too. So whenever I'm presenting to a client, I don't do the slide by slide, let me just talk about point A, slide to point B, C, et cetera, et cetera. I try to make it conversational. I may pivot from slide five to 16 and then bounce around. And it's keying in on conversation and paying attention to what the other person is telling you. So as the receiver, just honing in on that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think that's probably one of the hardest professions as a salesman. And we all do it, right? We all have to do it. But... For the most part. I mean, as a civil, like you do have to sell. I mean, one of my bosses said, you know, we're, we're, we're a service, you know, we're in the service industry, which we are, you know, because we have to, you know, keep our clients happy. We have to keep the city happy. We get, we're basically just, you know, kind of the goal between, between everyone, but it's still, you know, somebody that's actually sales that I could not do. Like, it's just not, man, I, I'd struggle at that. And part of the reason I read this book, part of the reason I started reading a lot more, and I've always loved reading since I was a kid, but it gives you something to talk about. It sparks something. I was like, oh, I read that in this or something. And it just makes things more interesting, you know what I'm saying? So that helps with trying to sell stuff, trying to talk to people, making small talk, all that stuff. Yeah, but I still think it's pretty hard. DLH, any salesman...
SPEAKER_04:In thinking about it, I think this is why it wasn't the hardest one for me is because for a time being, I myself was a salesperson.
SPEAKER_03:Really?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. And I sold appliances, electronics, used cars. What? Yeah. Get out. All the stuff. A good
SPEAKER_03:salesman or just
SPEAKER_04:like... No, I think I was good at it in the time because just like all the things that Dave said, you have to be a good listener and... Because listening well gives you the in to guide them towards the things that they need, even the things that they don't know that they need. You're uncovering it. And then you have to use the things that they said to give them a rationale for that. So I think I was good at that for the time. But then ultimately, I think once I saw my way out of it, I was like, I'm done. That's hard. I don't want to do that anymore. But my dad was a salesperson. My brother is a salesperson. uh, you know, like, so I, I don't think that, and I knew a lot of salespeople because that's the industry that I was in for a lot of my, um, early twenties, I would say. So yeah, there, there, there was no shortage of, of that. Um, I think now just trying to think about it differently, how many people have I encountered since then that are not actual salespeople, but that operate as that, that sort of person? Um, And you do come across some that are, I think, maybe more a little like the Renaissance man you talked about. You do find some people that are like that who are genuinely enthusiastic about what you're telling them. Yeah. That's a lot. To me, that's a whole lot of energy.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, it's a lot. Well, and especially because some of the stuff that he talks about and he's like, oh, I experienced that. Like whenever he asked me, oh, David, you're going to Spain. Oh, I did blah, blah, blah. I went here. I did this. And it's just like, well, you did that. And then you pivot to a completely different subject. And he knows something about it.
SPEAKER_03:I was playing Madden the other day. Oh, man, yeah, that new Madden.
SPEAKER_05:What the fuck? Yeah, it's just interesting whenever you come across somebody that's like that. But I kind of wanted to ask you or ask both of you. Specifically, what do you guys think are the specific traits? And I think the one that you just said that made me say my comment is there's got to be some genuine authenticity behind it. Yeah. Because I... Yeah, the car salesman
SPEAKER_03:is
SPEAKER_05:not a good thing. Yeah, the stereotypical used car salesman that's cheesy. What can I get you into today?
SPEAKER_04:I don't think it applies anymore. Well, I mean, the relationship there, because it's such a tough gig, is how much can I get out of you quickly? Yeah. I feel bad
SPEAKER_03:for the people at Sam's and at Costco and they're trying to sell you a phone and at Best Buy where you're like, get out of my face, dog. I'm in here just to buy some headphones and
SPEAKER_05:shit. Remember I told you the same thing two days ago whenever I came in? I think
SPEAKER_04:that if we're talking in the actual sales realm, just the sales realm, a quick comment here is that When you think about an example of someone or something that that puts a bad taste in your mouth and the general public, that's kind of like what stereotypically car salesmen do, right? Yeah. Because they want to fast track getting you into something that's going to cost you a whole lot of money and they're interested in how much money they
SPEAKER_03:make. What kind of payment are you looking for? And like, no, I need to know the interest rate. There's a lot of the
SPEAKER_04:other sales industries where you will meet some good people who actually are good at their job and they really are good at their job because they're trying to get you what they think is going to make you happiest. Yeah. Right. But, they don't always get a fair deal when people go in and they're like, I'm just looking, man, just off. Right. So anyway, there's that. But if we go back into, um, life, people who are not salespeople, uh, but have the qualities of that. Yeah. That, uh, I feel like in that realm, Victoria is really good. My wife, Victoria, she, yeah. When you tell her a story, your best friend, my best friend. And when she, uh, knows that there's something about you that, that, that, means something to you. She has a way of showing a level of excitement that, like I said, just takes a lot of energy. She's really good at that. I'm not. Most of my excitement is more internal. I don't really externalize it. You
SPEAKER_05:know, funny enough, because I got to hang around your daughter a couple weeks ago at camp, right? And she was enthusiastic. I don't know Victoria in that way, but seeing what your daughter, the way she would express enthusiasm for someone's success, other people's success, you could see it.
SPEAKER_04:She does that. In that way, Eliana is very much like Victoria. Even if they don't know you, all they need to see is that whatever you're Going through in that moment is a perceived win for you, and they're immediately your cheerleader. Yeah, I saw it in your daughter. They're right away cheering for you and all that stuff. Yeah, and I think they're good at that. But the people that are, I think, genuine that can come across, those are the ones that are, I think, more easily going to sell you on something if we get back into the salesperson part of it. It's just my two cents. How
SPEAKER_05:about you, Jaime? You think there's a particular trait? Oh, hell yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's everything, right? It's nonverbal cues. I think some people can't read the room. It's like if I'm not in tune with what you're saying, you need to move on. And I think somebody that catches that. knows to cut it short ah shit he's not really feeling this let me move to something that catches his attention or something like that almost
SPEAKER_05:has some emotional intelligence
SPEAKER_03:yes like all of that is but i think that's part of just relationships in general but a salesman is keen on that type of stuff you know when you're looking away like it's taking forever to tell me about this like i know everything about this car like i've already done all the research i need this you know it's like yeah and when they see that like okay then let me get that. And then they move it along.
SPEAKER_05:You can read that. A lot of times whenever I'm talking to clients, I can tell if they're get to the chase or get to the point. Let's move on.
SPEAKER_03:How much is it going to cost me, man? That's the bottom
SPEAKER_05:line. And you should treat them differently
SPEAKER_04:if you're listening. Or that's all rudimentary level. I've already done that research. Time to bring on the master's level.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. So Jaime, what about the, let's roll up the next one.
SPEAKER_03:So we did connectors, right? And then we did salesmen. The next one is the mavens. These are the people that have willingly gone out and done research on stuff that they find enjoyable or they just love looking into that you used in turn to kind of make a decision or whatever. I used you, David, as an example. You're good at getting stuff, finding stuff somewhere that's at half the cost. And so if I'm looking for something, like a lot of the stuff that we're using, a lot of this podcast stuff, you got at way less of a price than just going to Best Buy and paying$130, right? Like I did. You know what I'm saying? Too much. Yeah. Too much. It's too much. So, I mean, that's a maven, right? I used my little brother who's, you know, we grew up reading comic books and he took it to the next level that, If there's a Marvel movie coming out and he saw it because he watches every Marvel movie the night it comes out, I'll just call him and get the thumbs up. Is it good? Am I going to be disappointed? He's like, no, no, you're going to like it. Cool. That type of stuff. It could be anything. At the beginning when we started the podcast, there's people that I go to personally to talk about engines and car stuff, which is my boss and one of my coworkers. And actually I was telling them, I was like, I need to get better friends because nobody I hang out with knows anything about engines. You know what I'm saying? And those, they're older guys, right? They're 60 and 70, 65 and 72, something like that. And they know everything about engines. Like all you can be like, hey man, this is the issue I'm having with the bike. And he's like, I think it's this. And sure enough, nine times out of 10, they're right on the money. And so to me, it's like, I go to them, Anytime I run into trouble with engines, with a motorcycle, with a truck, with anything having to do with vehicles and engines, right? And it's different people for different types of things. And I think those are the people that we do use that we don't even know they're mavens, right? Because it's a cool word too, but it's not like everybody throws that word around all the time.
SPEAKER_05:Well, the bad part of us being part of the brotherhood It's a bunch of college students, right? So they're not in fields that matter where we really need help.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. A little carpentry. I
SPEAKER_05:need a carpenter. We definitely need those components. I've been dealing with house issues all week, but I would prefer if there was like a go-to person that I knew, maybe if they're not even going to do the work, but just ultimately, yeah, David, it's this, this. You just want to go up there and... change this out or whatever. But just someone you can trust and get to the point on. Same thing with mechanics.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So my son's, I don't know if we talked about this before, but he started getting into watches, right? Like he just, we got him a watch for, I think it was Christmas or something. And then he just, he's kind of like me to where he's, when he locks in on something, he goes like above and beyond.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And so he's asking me about it. I was like, bro, I don't know Jack about watches. Like, I'm not, I'm not a watch dude. I go, but I know a watch dude. Or I think I know a watch dude. And I text one of my fraternity brothers, right? And I said, I'm assuming right here, but I'm going to go ahead and assume that you're a watch guy. And so I got some, I got some watch questions that Joaquin wants to know about. And he texts me right back. Yep. What do you need to know? And he's like,
SPEAKER_05:yeah, watch this.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Terrible. Terrible. Yeah. Let's end this right now. This is so bad. There was one pre-warm up here
SPEAKER_05:before we started the podcast. Just equalizing. That one was good.
SPEAKER_02:That one was good. I'm surprised you waited that
SPEAKER_03:long. Let the man pause. So he's like, okay, what are you looking for? What's the budget? And then I was like, okay, let's calm down because my man has got money, right? He's got a lot of money. And he goes, well, I'm wearing this watch right now, and it's Audemars Piguet. I don't know. Somebody can look that up. A more spaghetti. Yeah. That watch is like 60 grand, dog. And he's like, this is what I'm wearing right now. And he sent me a picture of it. And I was like, okay, so we're talking too different. I said, bring it down a peg. Bring it down under 10. He goes, oh, okay, under 10. Here's what you need to look at. It's like the Omega Seamaster whatever, the Tudor whatever. These are under 10 that are fairly good watches. And I was like, cool, boom. Told Joaquin about it. So that's That's what I'm talking about. I don't have I'm not that interested in the watches to go down that rabbit hole.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And don't get me wrong. I go down a shitload of rabbit holes. Right. Like I'm I'm all about that. But that doesn't interest me as much. Golf doesn't interest me as much for me to go. Like I was telling you, if I need to go find some clubs or something, I call Robert because that's all he does is play golf. And I tell him, look, this is my budget. This is what I'm looking for. And he'll probably can tell me, get these clubs and then I'll go get those clubs. And because I trust him enough because he's pretty good at golf, and that's all he does. So, I mean, those are your mavens. Do we count professionals? Yes, absolutely. Those are professional mavens. Yeah. Well,
SPEAKER_04:because, I mean, they're helpful. Like, you know, when you're talking about going through some house things, it would be great to have a go-to for plumbing and electrical.
SPEAKER_05:Absolutely. I could use that more than all these engineers and freaking business people. Business people do me no good. Hey, watch it. Watch it. Watch yourself. I don't need the
SPEAKER_04:person that designed the house. I need someone that can fix the house. No, architects, yeah. For some of our, I guess, chat groups on Facebook, I see all the time there's one for people that are in the criminal justice legal profession. And there's always questions that are going by there, right? Yeah. So that's one. But it gets locked up. Well, I mean, it's a multitude of things, so I won't just say the threat of being locked up. But, you know, like the ones that I contact often, I have a friend who is an athletic trainer. Is
SPEAKER_03:he your best friend?
SPEAKER_04:Well, he's a really good friend. But he's not a fitness professional, though? No, he's not a fitness professional. If you ask him, right, because he is in the middle ground of fitness and medical. He says it's in the medical. This is an ongoing dispute amongst them and that community that do that profession. Between physical therapists and athletic trainers who think that they do the same job, and so they go back and forth on who's more important or whatever. Anyway, but because I am on the fitness side of things, we talk all the time about injuries, biomechanics, like all the different things. And then there'll be some times, whether I'm dealing with it or someone else that I... that I think is dealing with it. And it's outside of my scope of practice to tell them or advise them on injuries, but it doesn't keep me from being curious as to learning more about the things that I know. So that's just, that's part of, uh, I think my nature is, is if it's something I'm interested in, I want to know more. So I, I delve into that. And whenever I think I got a theory, I'll run it by him and say, here's what I think it is. What do you think? You know? And then he'll give me that. And of course, all of it is conjecture because it's, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then I will come up with what I think the working theory is and then I'll run it by her just to see her thoughts on it.
SPEAKER_03:So you consider yourself a fitness professional, maybe? Oh, here we go
SPEAKER_04:again. I'm asking. Yeah, you could say that because I am a fitness professional.
SPEAKER_03:There's really no other way to say that. Add another one to the bragging montage for the other.
SPEAKER_04:There is no other way to say that.
SPEAKER_03:That's what I am. Okay, what other... types of mavens are you? What other, I guess, categories or what else do you think, hey, I can contribute on this. If somebody were to ask me, I can provide fairly good information about this. It could be something goofy or... Yeah, I don't know. Really?
SPEAKER_04:Well, I mean, I think it depends on your level, right? Because if you... No, no, your level, like with you. If there's someone who's new to, let's say, the world of whiskey or bourbon, yes i can tell you okay i can tell you plenty of information oh yeah all that started
SPEAKER_03:all that horrible ass what do you call that what is it no the beer what is that craft beer and shit
SPEAKER_04:what's wrong with craft beer yeah so if you if you don't know anything about beer yes i can tell you about beer if you don't know anything about wine i could probably tell you a little bit about that too um but whiskey bourbon scotch like those are things that I have my favorites, and I've done enough research in that stuff in past to know what I like and why, so I can inform on that. Cigars, to some extent, right? I've been smoking cigars for years, so anyone who doesn't know what they're doing, what they're looking for, all that stuff, yeah, sure, got that stuff down. What else? That's leisure. That's
SPEAKER_03:leisure. Well, I'll tell you a story. I have a brother that I call... Every once in a while when I'm like, I need underground hip-hop. I need something new, fresh, and I call him. And I call him every once in a while, right? I've known him probably like 30 years, and I've called him probably every two or three years. And he is by far the best at it, right?
SPEAKER_05:On like new artists?
SPEAKER_03:On just underground hip-hop and artists. But like newer artists? New artists, yeah. And so I called him one day, and we're talking, and I said... I said, what's out there? What's poppin'? What's poppin'? And he said, he's like, get this album. You're gonna love it. And I said, ah, come on. He's like, look, if you don't, I will refund you whatever you pay. And I was like, you serious? And he's like, yeah. And sure enough. And who was it? Immortal Technique. Oh. His first album. Yeah, he's like, it just came out. Buy it. You're gonna love it. And I was like, he was right like you know what i'm saying and so i go to him for that i go to him for movies he's watched every movie known a man you know like i watch a lot of movies but i don't watch as nearly as many movies as he does so there's always someone that does it way more than you do right um and so he was he was so good at that like just because we've we've known each other that long that he knows he's not gonna like this you know what i'm saying or this is your wheelhouse um God damn it. Oh, shit. There you go. Sorry about that. We had some technical difficulties. You had some technical difficulties. There was an accident in the... In the beer department. In the beer department. David brought some cheap-ass beer. Anyway, we're talking about mavens. So I think we all know these type of people. And... And I think DLH was saying that he considers himself a maven in these certain things. David, is there anything? I mean, I consider you a maven in getting products and items at a way lesser rate. I think I bought my weed eater and my lawnmower from somebody that you put me on. So is there any other thing that you consider yourself like, yeah, come see me about this?
SPEAKER_05:I think just generally personal finance is probably my area. Is that your job though? A little bit, yeah. I operate specifically in the student loan, private student loan space. But before that, yeah, I did financial advising, that type of stuff. But I even think just general finance in terms of– personal finance more than anything. What about like pressing t-shirts
SPEAKER_03:and shit
SPEAKER_05:like that? Yeah. Those, those things, you know, YouTube,
SPEAKER_04:YouTube, YouTube. Would you say you're already there or you're working on Maven status in
SPEAKER_05:that? You know what? It depends. I, I, I tend to like things that, uh, or I like those, uh, hands-on activities. Right. Because I, in a sense I suck at it. So like, um, um, and woodwork and that type of stuff, if it was just me and my hands, it's probably going to come out looking like crap. In my mind, I see the way it's supposed to look. And so getting the gadgets that I've acquired over the years, such as the CNC machine, I really like producing stuff that I can visually see because it's kind of like accomplishing something visually. It's that Guadalupe peak, making it to the top and seeing... Callback.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, no, I agree with you. Like, there's stuff that, you know, we all have our professions, right? I mean, and hopefully, you know, like Malcolm Gladwell says, you know, if it's, I think it says 10,000 hours that... if you do put 10,000 hours into anything, you should be, you should be a, an expert at it. And which roughly is about 10 years. So if in 10 years, you're not, you're not a maven at something, then you're doing something wrong. You know what I'm saying? If people aren't coming to you, um, to get advice on that particular profession, then, then there's an issue. But then, but then there's other things that you kind of get interested in that, that maybe you consider yourself, Hey, I know a little bit about this. Um, You know, I was telling y'all, I love getting down rabbit holes, you know, and it could be anything. Something as silly as poker chips, you know. I think we started, you know, we do all these poker tournaments maybe two or three a year that maybe like five years ago, I just went down this rabbit hole of poker chips. You know, where, what kind, you know, there's so many different kinds of poker chips and casino chips that you can get. So I stumbled upon this forum that they sell, uh, casinos that go out of business. There's people that buy all those chips and then resell them. Uh, because you, you know, if you want to play with actual clay poker chips, like you do at casinos. Um, so I just went down as this rabbit hole in that, you know, and it's anything, you know, um, um, So if you want to know about poker chips, let me know. Pokerchipforum.com. And so that's how we stumbled upon the Rounders chips. Rounders is a great poker movie, and you can actually buy the replica of those chips, which I ended up doing because I freaking love that movie. But there's different other things, like Metalwork, Carpentry. Like, we did so many things, like the cornhole boards, the poker table that we built. Like, it's just, you get on YouTube, you know, you kind of try to figure out the stuff like that, and then you build it. Like, YouTube is so great. Yeah. It's the best Maven ever. Just get on there. Whatever you want to know, it's on there. 3D printing. You know, like, I bought a 3D printer last December, and I've done nothing but 3D print videos. A bunch of really useful stuff and a bunch of really just goofy shit. No, mostly, mostly goofy shit. Mostly stuff that just brings me joy as I stare at some Hulk arms that you can put on your chicken if you
SPEAKER_04:want. We should put a picture of that up on the... Some Hulk
SPEAKER_03:arms. So anyway... I
SPEAKER_05:think those
SPEAKER_03:are the three.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, those are the three. And I think DLH, before we started the podcast, maybe started dabbling in this question. And that is, can we be a mix of all of them? And my short answer personally is yes, I think so. I think everybody at some point dabbles in DLH. All three lanes.
SPEAKER_04:Are we sure it's everybody, though? I think it's everybody. Because I think at the very beginning of this episode, you mentioned the 80-20 rule, right?
SPEAKER_03:There's the 80-20 rule, correct.
SPEAKER_04:And the 80-20 rule is that, what is it, 80% of the work is being done by 20% of the people?
SPEAKER_03:20% of the people, correct.
SPEAKER_04:And that 20% of people fall in one of these three roles, which means that 80% of the people are not doing anything.
SPEAKER_03:80% are just sitting on their ass somewhere. You can ask them about... what's it like to sit on your ass all the
SPEAKER_04:time? You know, and I don't know, maybe people just need to go and read the tipping point to get some of this perspective. And I don't know if you remember that, but is there anything said at all about that other?
SPEAKER_03:No, like I read that book, I don't know, like 10 years ago. What are you doing? Chilling. Chilling.
SPEAKER_00:What's that? Waiting for somebody to bring me my beer and bag of chips.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I don't remember him discussing what those other freaking 80% of the people...
SPEAKER_05:Did he maybe mean that 80% in that specific moment or in that specific scenario? No. So if you're not the maven for, let's say, personal finance, then I become the default one. So you'd be the 80. In that particular
SPEAKER_03:instance, you'd be the 80. No, no, no. What he was saying, the 80-20 principle, if you don't know, like DLA just said, 80% of the work is done by 20% of the people. You can go to work on Monday morning, and that is going to play out. You know the people when you walk into your office. You know the people that are like, That guy's going to get it done. That guy's going to get it done. And these three bastards right here. I was just going to punch in and punch out.
SPEAKER_04:But I think like, okay, so let's say for instance, when you said earlier that if somebody is better at something, closing a deal than you are, then you're going to say, go, go do that. Correct. Do you shift yourself from being the 20% into the 80% by handing it off?
SPEAKER_03:Well, I become a connector now. Like so-and-so, meet so-and-so, get the shit done.
SPEAKER_04:Well, I guess that's if you connect them. But if the connection is already made because it's part of the the company or the deal or whatever and you hand it off just because you know it's the strength I guess what I'm saying is maybe it's not necessarily a negative that you're part of the 80% that's not like specifically driving what needs to be done
SPEAKER_03:well but the way he put it is like 80% of the work is done by 20% of the people and those 20% can be broken up into these three so you're one of those
SPEAKER_05:three so does that make the business owner then a crappy person business owner because he's got 80% of his people not doing anything.
SPEAKER_03:No, but that's just– I
SPEAKER_04:think we should probably read it because my guess is that it's going to be on a– maybe not so much a per-case basis, but there has to be some shifting because I know that the implication made there would not be that 80% of the population is just lazy and only 20% is what's doing all the work. But– Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Maybe that they're not lazy. Maybe they're just not as good as that 20%. Yeah,
SPEAKER_04:but if we're talking generally, though, people have strengths and weaknesses, right? So if you're leaning into a strength, then I would imagine that some people can slide into the 20 and then slide back into the 80 when it's not something that's their strength. So either... Per situation or per job case or however the job or whatever you're doing defines that particular work, right? Whether it's a project, a sale, whatever. Yeah. You take the people that are going to be strongest in that, that becomes your 20, and then you have the 80% that's not doing the
SPEAKER_05:work. Yeah, so specifically in looking at it, it was– to explain how a small number of people are responsible for the majority of impact in social epidemics. Right, but then that means it could change.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so
SPEAKER_05:it changes. So it's not that the 80% are not doing anything. Like anywhere ever, right? At some point they become useful. They're producing something, but they're getting by. Yeah, they're just
SPEAKER_03:not as good
SPEAKER_04:as... Okay, now
SPEAKER_05:it
SPEAKER_04:makes sense. You have your closers, you know?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah,
SPEAKER_04:but that gives, I guess, acknowledgement that the majority of the population... can be part of the 20% when they have... Are called upon. Yeah, when they excel at being a maven, a connector, or a salesperson. Yeah, I would agree with that.
SPEAKER_03:I disagree.
SPEAKER_04:So brush up on your skills. Whichever it is that you are, a maven, a connector, or a... So what do you consider yourself? I am no longer a salesperson. I think that for me, I prefer to be in the background. I like to do... 80%? The thing is, if I were going to be part of the 20% in anything, I prefer to be that in the Maven area. That's my preference. I'm somebody who, I enjoy research. And if there's something that to me is worthwhile, I will look into it. And again and again and more. And I will look up everything I possibly can to become well-versed in it. And all I need to do is be interested in it. So my interests go well beyond cigar and alcohol. Right. But I don't think that people in general want to hear that most of my reading is in the self-help realm or psychology or in modern masculinity that does come into play here on occasion. But I actually read that for my own consumption because I'm interested in it. So I do that. I dabble in that stuff a lot on my own. But. I think that if I'm going to bother to be interested in something, that's what I like to do, just become well-versed. So for me, I think if I'm going to be any of those things, sure, I'll be whatever it needs to be, but I would prefer the Maven.
SPEAKER_03:David, you're a salesman still?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I'd probably stick in that realm. Although I strongly believe I fit all three categories based on what we determine. Okay, but... But generally speaking, I probably, because of my job function, I fall into that category more than anything. I
SPEAKER_03:got you. Yeah, I mean, me personally, being a civil engineer, I think it's more of a maven because I'm specialized in this. And I think I kind of am that way with other stuff. Like, if I know something, I know something. If I don't, I don't mess with it. Like, I'll tell you. I don't know. You know what I'm saying? Just like whenever we started, I got called in, right, to start the Alumni Association. They're like, Jaime, let's start this Alumni Association. We've tried, you know, we need help. And I was like, well, I can do that. Like, I know how to do that. You know what I'm saying? And so you come in and you just set everything up. And that was my role, right? Like, I know how to set stuff up. I know how to, you know, I know how we ran it at my chapter, right? This will work here. We can just make a couple of tweaks and boom, right? And we've been successful. You know what I'm saying? And so after a time, I mean, I remember sitting with DLH and I told DLH, I was like, I was a freaking chairman for like 12 years, 10 years, something like that. And I told DLH, I was like, bro, it's not that I don't want to be chairman anymore, right? It's that I think... there needs to be a change. Yeah. It just gotta, you need to evolve. You gotta evolve. And, and, and not that I've, I can take us further, but, but it needs to be everyone and everyone needs to buy into it. And if they keep hearing me, they're, they're going to tune out. And we had this conversation. Um, the LH was like, why do you feel you, you know, you know, the LH is like, why do you feel you have to leave? And I was like, bro, I just need like a, yeah, that's a good idea. So I, I would, consider myself a maven in most of the stuff that I do you know with my job but yeah I dabble in the other two like I'm not that great of a of a I guess I could be a connector because I mean that that's just needed for what I do but a man as a salesperson I struggle with that shit the most like I cannot I
SPEAKER_04:I think there's some people who actually enjoy it, right?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, no, absolutely.
SPEAKER_04:And it's great when you find people that are like that.
SPEAKER_03:That's why you have so many realtors.
SPEAKER_04:When you can defer. And like you do that, because I just don't want to do anything anymore in any of that realm. I just like to be behind the scenes. And I think that for me, like Maven, yes, when you're in a profession, yes, we'll give the benefit of the doubt, right, that you are a Maven in that area. But when you're doing things that are outside of that, I think, and I have no research to back this, I would just say this now that I thought about it, but the people who are Mavens... when you talked about going down a rabbit hole, and I think that there's an element of that that becomes a bit obsessive. Like even if you're trying to tell yourself, like maybe I don't need to know more.
SPEAKER_03:No, you need to know more. But then you
SPEAKER_04:have to know more. I have to know more. And you got to know more, and you got to know more. And I think that when you do that, like anything that you feel that you must know more about that, you become a maven.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Because you can't stop yourself from going down the
SPEAKER_03:rabbit hole. I don't know if y'all have seen the show Vikings, which is a great show. And I watched it. My neighbor was like, hey, this is a good show. I was like, cool. I watched like a couple of episodes. Then I watched the first season. And then I'm like, I need to know whether any of this is true. You know what I'm saying? So I started researching everything about Vikings and whether Ragnar Lothbrok was, you know, who this show says he is. And he kind of is. And then they tweaked some of the stuff. And some of it is true. Some of it isn't. And just for fun. But yeah, I mean, I went down that rabbit hole and I was watching that show endlessly. I was binge watching that thing all day. So yeah, there's certain things that I think certain people get OCD about or obsessive compulsive about. You know what I'm saying? Like having to know everything about it. And I think you're right. You do become a maven at that. And then people would just be like, is that a good show? Okay, cool. And they'll be on the surface. Yeah. It was okay. It was fine. Yeah. So do we need to do a board approved? Absolutely. We can't end the show
SPEAKER_05:without it.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. How are we going to wrap that up? Yeah. What do we need? We need you to sell us on something. Let's see.
SPEAKER_05:Son of a gun. Sorry, I was taking pictures of my beer a second ago, so I got to get back in tune here. You should be listening
SPEAKER_00:to the show. If you were truly a salesperson, you would have been listening this whole time. I don't feel seen.
SPEAKER_04:I'm feeling ignored. Some people deserve that. Oh, that's a salesperson point of view? Yeah. Board approved is be one of these three.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, be part of the 20% that does stuff.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, actively engage in being part of the 20% in
SPEAKER_04:produce. Man, but that's hard, though, because at some point we just acknowledged you'd have to slide into the 80% at some point, right? You can't know
SPEAKER_03:everything about everything. No, you slide into being a connector or a salesperson if you can't be the maven.
SPEAKER_04:But then that, but that connector is still within the 20%. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:That's what I'm saying. You move around the 20% and man, don't, don't be that. Don't ever be the 80% ever. So quick story. DLH comes in and knocks over one of our flower pots and there's, potting soil everywhere. And he just sits there and looks at it. No, but you, you pick. David. So I went to go get a, you know, the little, the little pan and a little brush or whatever. And David gets up and starts scooping it with his hand, which is, I mean, that's, that's pretty something. Right. And, um, And DLH is just sitting watching.
SPEAKER_04:No, but he didn't do it the first time either. He started picking it up because after you set it down, you went to go get the broom and dustpan. And then the damn pot fell over the second time on its own. No, it didn't. Yes, because then he looked back and he was like, what the hell?
SPEAKER_03:So in that scenario, and that's DLH. was the 80%. Yeah, he's
SPEAKER_05:definitely the 80% in both scenarios. At first, the one where he actively knocked it over, and the second one where that pot was like, no, bitch, you knocked me down.
SPEAKER_03:And then he did his sorcery and his, like, his, you know... What is it? The slide of hand and told you a story while you're cleaning. Well, we're sitting there cleaning. I was
SPEAKER_04:trying to contribute. A horrible story. I was providing some entertainment. While y'all were working. Talking about a magic coffee
SPEAKER_01:table. I was like, this is bullshit. Get a fucking dustpan. It was a funny story. But
SPEAKER_04:there's nothing I can say around that. I was part of the 80%. All
SPEAKER_03:right. Don't be part of the 80%. Be a maven. Yeah. Be a salesperson. Be a
SPEAKER_04:connector. But if you're part of the 80%, be the top.
SPEAKER_03:No, never be the 80%. Do something. What's your
SPEAKER_05:tipping point that will
SPEAKER_03:get you to that 20%? Call back. So this is another podcast we should have. It got me thinking about it. You know how you have text threads, right? Yeah. And then you have the side text thread. Can
SPEAKER_01:you believe this moment? We need to talk about that.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. Be on the lookout on the next episode. Yes, I love that, though. Because think about it. When you go to somebody's house or somebody comes to your house, you inevitably. So what do you think about songs? It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. We do it. You do it. Everybody does it. Like we visited a friend of ours last night for their kid's birthday party.
SPEAKER_05:Especially when they have kids. Yeah. They're like, man, did you see their kids? They just blah,
SPEAKER_03:blah, blah. Absolutely. Right? And you know what I'm saying? And they probably talked about us. Like, man, did you see Jaime over there just not contributing? Whatever. I was contributing. I was the perfect guest. But it's the debriefing and the pre-briefing of any encounter. Thanksgiving, Christmas, you have family over. It's like, okay, so so-and-so is coming over. Do not engage.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Anchor down all your plants. Put the petty cash away.
SPEAKER_03:Man, we need to have that. Damn it. That's a good one.
SPEAKER_05:Anyway. Well, we need to wrap it up. Wrap it up. Essentially, anchor your plants. We're going to
SPEAKER_03:anchor your plants. Board approved. Don't be part of 80%. Be a connector. Be a 20. Be a 20. Be a 20.
UNKNOWN:Be a 20.
SPEAKER_03:There you go. Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others. Post about it on your social media and or leave a rating and review. To catch all the latest from us, you can follow us on Instagram and X. So thanks again and we'll see you next time.
