The Chivalry Chronicles
We discuss topics such as Brotherhood, Masculinity, and Fatherhood. A modern manly approach to chivalry.
Or better yet, Guys Stuff that Guys Do, Cuz We're Guys.
The Chivalry Chronicles
Episode 016 - Code-Switching
David, Dr. DLH, and Jaime discuss Code-Switching and the different aspects of using it.
Code-switching is the practice of changing languages, dialects, accents, or tones of voice in a single conversation or situation. It can also involve changing mannerisms or appearance.
Why people code-switch
- To optimize comfort and get fair treatment
- To find a workplace that aligns with their values and self-identity
- To maintain ethnic distinctiveness
- To fit in with a dominant group
Also provide examples of code-switching. Knight Code tie-in.
Knight Code No. 019:
Prior to addressing Brothers, all Brothers shall be aware of the multitude of head nods. They are as follows:
- Head Nod Down is for acknowledgment. As in, a Downward Head Nod communicates that I acknowledge you exist, and we have noticed each other existing.
- Head Nod Up is for recognition. An Upward Head Nod communicates that I know you.
- Head Nod to the Right is let us adjourn to the nearest room and discuss a private matter.
- Head Nod to the Left is let us retire for the evening.
The guys issue a verdict.
If by some chance, some stroke of luck, or some act of God, you have stumbled upon this broadcast, you are listening to The Chivalry Chronicles with your host, Dr. DLH.
SPEAKER_00:I'm a damn doctor!
SPEAKER_02:David. We're going to bring the tea. I refuse to not drink during the podcast. Yeah. And me, Jaime. They need to make podcast equipment a lot more expensive to get some of these clowns off the air. Gather around as we discuss a modern manly approach to chivalry. So I hope you're ready because I know we are. So let's get into it. All right. That went well. Welcome back, guys. You're rallying. I know. That sounded more like a
SPEAKER_01:cowbell. That's not a cowbell. That is ice.
SPEAKER_02:Come and get it. In my bourbon. I need more cowbell. All right. So welcome back, guys. I know that we're in 2025 now. This is probably our second show. I wanted to welcome everyone back, DLH, David. Yo! Sup. Sup, right. Speaking of, you know, since DLH kind of brought us into it, I thought today we'd talk about code switching. And we can discuss it with...
SPEAKER_01:He thought about
SPEAKER_02:it. Yes, I did. I think about everything. What the listeners don't know is like, I am the brains of the operation and these two guys are my puppets. All right, I'll go with that. No, we were talking about code switching. That's why I'll go with that. And we said, hey, let's discuss it on the podcast. I know there's, if you're not familiar with what code switching is, DLH is going to go through a lengthy definition of it and then all his in-depth research and explain it to us. No,
SPEAKER_01:but seriously. None of that was accurate. There is no research here, but I will give a brief definition of what code switching is. It's when you speak or change languages or dialects or accents differently. in conversation to fit within whatever social group that you're in. So you may wind up speaking in one way towards one social group, but speaking in a different way to a different group. And even though like we're saying social groups, it doesn't mean different. It can be different groups of friends, but it can also be between, you know, like when you're at home and speaking to family or friends versus when you're in the workplace.
SPEAKER_02:Right. And this is different than switch in languages, correct? Or is it the same?
SPEAKER_01:I think it's like, you can, if we, it depends on how we want to view it, right? Or how deep we want to go. But if you have to speak Spanish to one, because they don't speak English, but then you have to speak English to another group, technically speaking, that is code switching.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Right. But because of limitations of the group or the way that you think that the group will view you, if you do otherwise.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So, I was reading, we pulled it up and it says code switching and what it's used for. One of it said is to avoid, so marginalized communities make code switch to avoid discrimination from a dominant group.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:That is to me a very apt description of why you do it. And I think when you're young, especially if you're, I would say minority, if you're Hispanic, speaking from a personal standpoint, like, I didn't know English when I came to the United States. I was like six years old. And so at home, you speak Spanish. When you go to school, you have to learn English, right? And so you do it as just a survival method. And I don't think, I didn't really hear code switching until maybe like, I don't know, eight years ago or something like that, where I was like, oh, it is a thing. There's a specific term for that. It's just something that you did as a minority, as somebody that grew up speaking Spanish at home. But I thought that was one of the best definitions or one of the best kind of uses of it. The other one that says to obtain opportunities, people may code switch to improve their chances of getting a job or other professional opportunities. That definitely is one.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I think that maybe the more marginalized groups you are the, the more disparity between those two codes you may have to, uh, evoke, right? Like, like you taught, you talked about one as a survival tactic. And if you are going to college university, you go back to, uh, I don't know, whatever neighborhood you're in and maybe all of your friends are, um, this is a realistic situation, but more, uh, into, uh, you know, like small time crime stuff, gangs, things like that. And you're cool with them. You're not in that group necessarily, but if you pretend like you're too good for them, it is not a good situation for you. Yeah. Right. So you have to be able to bring yourself back to that, but you also cannot take that into a college campus.
SPEAKER_02:Right. The third one on here says people may code switch to maintain their sense of identity and belong into a community, which is exactly what you're talking about. If you're in an area that has, I mean, gang activity. I mean, it could be like when I pledge a fraternity. The fraternity itself has certain terms that they use. They'd be like, hey, what's up, frat? You know, that type of stuff. And then when you come in, you're like, okay, that's what they say instead of brother and all this. And so you start taking on their lingo. Yeah, essentially fraternity. The way I would put it is it allows you to participate in that circle. So you're at the barbecue with family. Your family has a certain level of education or themes or traditions that have gone on and on. And some of those traditions and some of those conversations, you know that it is not acceptable outside of that family barbecue, right? So you switch it. You have to switch it. Yeah. Okay, but is it okay for everyone to just start code switching and then just a random person off the street coming into your barbecue like, hey, David, hey,¿qué onda? And he doesn't know Spanish. Is that okay? Can you do that? Would you accept that person? It depends on the relationship. No, you don't know a complete stranger. Yeah, if you don't know that person and they come in and do that and it comes across inauthentic, you're going to get... You're going to get annihilated.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but I think that if we talk about like the way that you say things is not always the way that they're perceived, right? So if somebody came in and they thought this is an uncomfortable situation, I want to try and show that I am okay. genuinely trying to be a part of their situation the way that they understand it and and maybe they missed the mark by coming in that way but that was the intent was to come across as a like a genuine act of trying to be in your circle um i think that there there can be a way of telling them like yo we're not there yet you don't have don't feel like you need to do that Right now, just be and then we'll we'll figure it out along the way. You know, something like that. But I also think that like when it comes to you talked about being part of the family and family barbecue and stuff like that. Right. Sometimes it's we we just mentioned it being a survival tactic, but sometimes it's a way of being in your usual community just without contention. So one of the things that I think about now is when I started going to school, I got into college and I was largely doing things on my own, working on my own, paying all the things on my own, everything, independent. But when I would go back home, my dad would start sort of picking at me, picking an argument. What are you studying? What are you studying now? And then it was like he was looking for a way to I don't know if it was him looking for a way to sort of hold his own intellectually or just trying to knock me down a peg. But it always felt like he was provoking that. And then so after a little while, I would begin to evade that and not use. I was particular in how I would choose my words to not use. I don't know, sound educated, whatever that was, or whatever way I thought I could convey something that wouldn't evoke that. Yeah, maybe in his way, he was just trying to humble you. Yes, I guess. And I was like, okay, let me not get into that. And I would just try to bring it down, particularly for that purpose.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I guess the other way, like, code switching can be used that we're probably all familiar with, if you know English and Spanish, is to... say the Spanish word the way it's supposed to be said. You know what I'm saying? Like if you're, let's say you're ordering a meal, somebody could say tortillas, right? Y'all have the flour, tortillas de harina, instead of like tortillas or something like that. Like I think- Queso? Yeah, queso, hot queso cheese. I think if you know Spanish- I think you're caught in that. Do I say it the way normally people say it? I know I was out, we were out to dinner somewhere and it was Leti and my wife and I, we were hanging out with coworkers, right? And then, so Leti, Leti's very good about this. She knows Spanish and all that. But when she says like, oh, I went down to downtown and we turned on Durango. And then, so we were around people that weren't Hispanic, right? And then the one guy was like, Is that the same thing as Durango? But that's part of it. I think as if you know both languages, you're kind of stuck with, do I say it the way it's supposed to be said? Or do I just like toe the line? And you're almost back code switching. And me growing up, growing up in Amarillo, growing up with- Amarillo. Amarillo. Growing up and being part of that and then knowing why my name is David, my brother's name is Michael instead of like a Miguel or David said as such. Like my dad is Jesus, but whenever he was in elementary school, first grade or something, the teacher called him up to the front and said, you can't go by this name. We're going to call you Jesse.
SPEAKER_00:Damn.
SPEAKER_02:And, and my dad didn't know any better. He's a first grader and he went by Jesse. And then like my uncle, Reynaldo, you're not Reynaldo, you're Ray. And it was just, at least that's close. It was, it was, it was to fit, you know, that particular need with Jesus and so forth. But I, that's essentially why I believe my parents just chose kind of like a Easy, generic name. I guess David's not bad. Michael, but they're also biblical names.
SPEAKER_01:No, that's why, because I have a brother named Michael. Oh, really? Y'all both are David and Michael? Yeah. When we asked my mom, she said it was from the Bible. Yeah. And I was like, well, all right, that's boring. Yeah,
SPEAKER_02:so throughout high school, you know, I got tired of fighting. The teacher. Fighting. Fighting. And so it was Jaime in first grade, right? Because first, I didn't know English, right? And then they put me in all English classes in second grade. And it was still Jaime. Third grade, it was still Jaime because you have a lot. By fourth grade, all the way, Jamie. Jamie. Jamie. That's what I was thinking they would have called you early on. And I was like, oh, my God. It's not that. It's Jaime. And then... So throughout high school, I was like, yeah, okay, whatever. That's it. And so my... My sister-in-law, who's married to my oldest brother, she's actually, they've been dating forever, right? Since I was a kid, like, you know, 10 or whatever. And she still calls me that. And it's funny. Sometimes she catches herself and she'll flip back and forth. But it wasn't until I went to college that I was like, you know what? I'm going to make a stand. And this is going to be like, no, it's Jaime. Okay. No, it's Jaime. You know what I'm saying? And even when I came down to San Antonio, I was like, I'm in San Antonio because I grew up in Dallas. People know Spanish here. Like, I remember hearing Spanish at a McDonald's, which I was like, wow, that's pretty amazing because you don't hear it that much in Dallas. And so even when they mess up my name here, I'm like, come on, man. Like, we're in San Antonio. Like, you're halfway to the motherland. Like, you should know how to pronounce that. But it's kind of like you have to– I guess you want to, I don't want to say assimilate, but you, you don't want to, you don't want to ruffle feathers either. Yeah. And I think, I think that I started off just kind of trying to, to fit in with whatever the norm was within say Amarillo. Uh, and as I got older, it was more like in, in getting some of the context as to why then it's like, well, wait a minute now I want to take some of this back. Uh, So I do say whenever I say my last name, everybody in my family, even though my mom and dad speak a heck of a lot better Spanish, they'll say Rodriguez. I say Rodriguez. And I mean, I can barely survive speaking Spanish, but I do those things for streets here in town. I say Culebra, Culebra. I do those things as a way to kind of get back some of that and set an identity for myself that says, I'm proud of this. I'm proud of where this came from, and I'm taking it back. Even with work, and this kind of, I guess, starts veering off a little bit on the code switching, but with work, I know whenever I started my role at my current job, I travel quite a bit. And people would, they, they weren't picking up on a Texan accent from me. Really? And they would ask where I was from and I'd say Texas. And so I started doing some subtle things that I've carried on. Like I never used the word howdy until I started my job. I had never used the word howdy. I had never put on a pair of cowboy boots, even though I grew up in Amarillo, Texas. What's wrong with you? There's chaps at the workplace. But now I embed some of those things into my talk. Now, there are some Texan words that I've also removed. Like? Like yar. What is that? Is that yars? Meaning, is that yours? Oh, I've never heard that. Really?
SPEAKER_01:I've never heard that either. Yeah. I don't know if that's a Texan thing. It is a Texas thing. No, that is a Texas thing.
SPEAKER_02:That's an illiterate thing. And then instead of saying orange, of course, I was orange.
SPEAKER_01:Orange. That's orange. Well, now you're just talking inflection and how you...
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, but at the same time, I think whenever you're aware of what you do or how you say things and you're trying to fit within how you want to be... Yeah, but it
SPEAKER_01:is spot on. Yes, it's spot on because it's relevant, I think, in the way that we consider power dynamics, right? When you feel like there is someone who has some sort of power over you in that context, you're more likely to conform to what you think they need or want to hear. As you stay in it, let's say it's even a professional context and you do that, you're in that particular code switching, you go from wherever you are, you speak the language that you think you need to speak within that professional environment until you get enough raises where now you have enough people under you who need to code switch to fit what they think you want. And then eventually your comfort level, you get to start saying the things the way that you want to say them and the people around you have to learn that about you. I agree. I don't
SPEAKER_02:know if you've
SPEAKER_01:shared it
SPEAKER_02:on the podcast before, but going back to your name, And I remember you telling me the story of an engineer that was from San Antonio. No. So the story is the summer before my senior year, I got a scholarship to attend Lamar University. And so I was down there for a couple of months taking classes, like college courses. And there was a bunch of students from all over Texas. And so I met two guys from San Antonio. They were from South San. Right. And and because it wasn't just Hispanics, it was like everyone. Right. It was a bunch. It was Minority Scholars Institute. So you had you had Hispanics, you had blacks. Yeah. But when I met those two guys, they were really curious about me. And because they're like, OK, you're you're Mexican. Right. I was like, yeah. Born in Mexico. Yes. And it's like so weird. Why do you let them call you Jamie? And I was like, man, I got tired of fighting it. And he goes, no, you have to keep your name. That's your name. And so when I was talking to them, they were so super proud. They had all this pride with Mexican heritage, which I do too. But they saw it as like, no, man, you need to take back your name. Kind of like you're saying. And I was like, you know what? It's been a long struggle here, but I'm going to do that. And those two guys, I don't know what happened to them, but they were from South San Francisco. And they were cool as hell because they, you know, when you speak to someone, I always had the issue where if I started talking to you in Spanish, then I can talk to you in Spanish whenever. But if you and I started having a conversation in English, then my kind of brain locks to English. And if you start mixing Spanish, then I have to like kind of undo that lock real quick. And so with them, no, we spoke Spanish all the time. And so it was kind of cool. But yeah, it was... It was two students from South Sand. They were like, no, man, you need to change that. You need to go back to your name. That's your name. And so I did. I was like, you know what? You're right. I need to start doing something about that. And so from then on, I was like, no, I made it more of a point. I
SPEAKER_01:think in principle, that's a good individual constitutional thing to do. You have to know where you're going to draw the line. But then you also have to know that Sometimes when you draw the line, it may come with consequences. No, it will. So I can't cite to you specifically these research studies, but I do know that there is research out there that talk about whether it's homeownership, jobs, like name it. If it's out there and you apply for whatever it is with a black or brown sounding name, you're less likely to get...
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:whatever it is, then you're white counterparts, right? Like that's, that's just the, um, the nature of, well, our institutional racism that's out there. Um, but anyway, um, you stick to your guns and like it's Hyman, not Jamie. And you know that you may, you may never actually know. You could apply for something and just not get it, but you don't know whether they have-
SPEAKER_02:They just bend the corner a little bit and put it in the other stack. That one, there's something about that one I don't like. So, you know, going on along with that, I had an issue with my name being quote unquote anglicized, right? To where when we had kids- Like, my son's name is Joaquin. And I made sure to get a name that was deep-rooted in Mexican heritage and also hard to anglicize. You know? Because some people try. Like, Jack? No, no, no. Joaquin. And then, I mean, we get so many... misspellings, right? They spelled it with a W-W-O-A-K-E-N, like Joaquin. W-A-L-K-I-N-G. Or Joaquin, you know, like walking. But I was deliberate in his name. There's also a poem that goes, I am Joaquin, that I love.
SPEAKER_01:Which is a good one.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I love that.
SPEAKER_01:It was actually that one that we were going to name S-I-E. We were going to name him Joaquin, it was one of my favorites because of that poem.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that poem is great. If you haven't read it, go check it out. But his name was very deliberate in that. Liana, my wife had a friend that, you know, but it's still hard to, I mean, she hates it when they call her Liana and sort of other crazy names, but. We were very deliberate in our kids' names.
SPEAKER_01:I think that's similar to us because my son is S-I-E. Yeah. When it gets anglicized, it's S-I. Does it
SPEAKER_02:go by Bob?
SPEAKER_01:And then there was a while, too, where he would correct people. It's S-I-E. Really? It's not S-I, right? And so now he has, even though he may not know the term code switching, he does it.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, no.
SPEAKER_01:Because there's some times where he will say that it's S-I-E is how you say it. usually when somebody is aware enough to say, is that how you pronounce it? And then he'll say, actually, it's S-I-E,
SPEAKER_02:right?
SPEAKER_01:Eliana is my daughter's name. So it's kind of this, you know, I guess the same situation, hard to mess those up. You do get some people that can't pronounce it and try to, but.
SPEAKER_02:Right. There's plenty of examples of it. And I think you're right. Like you do it as a kid and don't even know you're doing it. It's just, the way you're kind of just your survival techniques.
SPEAKER_01:So that brings up something to mind here. I want to ask you both.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Since we're talking about maybe not recognizing when you do it right now on the spot, can you think about how many types of code switching you go into in your current life right now? Not forever. I'm not talking about your entirety, but I mean like even today in the last couple of months. How many different codes do you need to speak in?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, shoot. Like probably like three or four just right off the bat that I can think of.
SPEAKER_01:What are they?
SPEAKER_02:So I think when I talk to family, it's a whole different. You know, when I talk to my brothers, we have our own kind of the way we express ourselves. Of course, at work, you know, you have to have, you know, the professional perspective. person that answers the phone.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Family and professional. Yeah, those are two common.
SPEAKER_02:And then you're not professional, but you're also not as, for the lack of a better word, vulgar with your wife, right? Your wife and your kids, you have a different way that you talk to them.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. So core family, extended family, professional.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, professional. And I guess just whenever you meet new people... You kind of tone down everything about you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, would we call that a different code? Or are you sort of floating? It's not
SPEAKER_02:professional, though.
SPEAKER_01:It's none of them. But until you can identify it, you're just sort of... Yeah. It's like your common folk speak or whatever your public face
SPEAKER_02:is. I was talking to one of my coworkers. He's a good friend of mine now. We've been friends for 18, 19 years. He got hired... At the company that I worked at And he's also an engineer And we're talking And I was like Hi man you know We had to go to To Houston It was a long drive So it's really Man if you ride with somebody For like hours That are just like dry It's really bad But we just had to This one time And so we get in the car And I'm driving And he's So we just start talking Right let me start Chit chatting with him And he's like Hi man you know So where you from You know like Where'd you grow up I was like Oh I grew up in Dallas Where exactly He's like I was like, well, it's Pleasant Grove. He's like, ah, man, you're from the Grove and shit. I know everybody. And I was like, ah. And then you're kind of like, your barriers come down a little bit. I was like, okay. He goes, man, I got family in the Grove. And so then we just, you kind of put all that professional shit aside.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and then you know what that code is.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly. So you get into like, you know, ah, you know, so where'd you go to school? So I went here, you know, and he goes, oh man, my family, they, you know, they moved over to South Oak Cliff. And then you start just, you know, having that, that actual good conversation rather than if he was someone else they didn't know he's like oh what's pleasant well pleasant to grow with southeast dallas blah blah and then you started you started to keep that you still have to keep that professional aspect man once he said that i was like i'm good like i i don't have to like you know build up more barriers he knows who i am he knows where i came from he has family there so he knows the deal so yeah i think that's that's um That's one way that you code switch.
SPEAKER_01:I think that's pretty good. I think the only one, the only glaring one that you missed is when we, we'll say the alumni association or enough of us fraternity brothers are hanging out together because it's a, we'll just say hyper-masculine. Well,
SPEAKER_02:I think that's
SPEAKER_01:more brothers. Yes, but we say things in a certain way that other fraternities wouldn't understand, right, for some of it. There's some things that we wind up saying to each other that we can't say out in the general public. Like
SPEAKER_00:what?
SPEAKER_01:Expound, please. Examples. Only you. I'm speaking podcast code, so I'm going to keep this a little bit safe. I mean, y'all know. Y'all know. No, I don't. I mean, that's
SPEAKER_02:why we
SPEAKER_01:wrote Nyko. We'll see, but how many times do we got to tell Dave, like, yo, keep
SPEAKER_02:it.
SPEAKER_01:Get it under control.
SPEAKER_02:Did either one of y'all see... The Last Dragon. Tell me, because it's an old movie. You saw The Last Dragon? Yeah. Did you see The Last Dragon? No, the Bruce Lee movie? No. No, Bruce Leroy. The Bruce
SPEAKER_01:Leroy. Oh my God, he catches bullets with his teeth. What's the rest of that? That's what he says, catches bullets with his teeth. I know, but what's the rest of it? I'm not going to
SPEAKER_02:say that. So there's a scene in there where Bruce Leroy, who's black, right? But he's all into the, I guess it's Japanese culture or- Martial arts. And so he doesn't know how to blend in. And so he loves Bruce Lee and he saw the movie where Bruce Lee goes undercover. And so he's like, I'm going to go undercover and try to get into this place. And that place has... So he's black, but he... he starts acting more black because the Asian guys that worked there love black culture. Yeah. And so he's like, he's practicing, right? He's like, Hey, my man, what it look like?
SPEAKER_01:Because he, I mean, it's a, it's a very interesting like character situation, right? Cause he's a black man who does not, uh, act in your, I will say for the movie purposes, your stereotypical, uh, black character, right? He's much more, um, articulate everything that he does is with discipline and integrity and and and the way that he speaks is just not the way that the people he's speaking to think black people speak so then he tries to pretend to be that way right one of the other examples of that is like what is it called malibu's most wanted yes
SPEAKER_02:yes
SPEAKER_01:yeah but anyway when he
SPEAKER_02:read
SPEAKER_01:when he read from the boo baby When Bruce Leroy is over there and he's trying to deliver pizzas.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And he's walking, you know, like, hey, my man. Yeah. What it look like? So, I mean, that's that's just one. I don't know. I love that movie. That movie came out like in 1985 or something. It's not like the Dolomite movies and stuff.
SPEAKER_01:I just actually. No, I just saw it recently, like within the last week. Really?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, my God. I haven't seen that movie in probably 30 years. You'd probably like it, David, because this is a this is a. A mint 1980s movie. If you haven't watched this movie, you probably know Shonuf. He looks like Buster Rhymes, actually.
SPEAKER_01:I guess he goes in that way. Well,
SPEAKER_02:Buster Rhymes imitates him in one of his videos.
SPEAKER_01:You know, this is... Every time it comes up, I was an extra in a movie that he was in. Yeah. When I was at Texas. Wait,
SPEAKER_02:wait, wait, wait. No, no, no. Let's stop the show. We need more information. Yeah, and now you're just going to keep that from us. What movie, what year are you in the credits?
SPEAKER_01:No, I'm not in the credits. Can we
SPEAKER_02:see you?
SPEAKER_01:But I think you could probably see... You're back? You can't see my face. I'm a football player in this movie. So it's fictional. The movie's called The New Guy. Okay. Right? The New Guy. Let's do some half-ass internet research. They filmed a portion of this movie at what is now Texas State University. It was Southwest Texas State University at the time. And he was the coach of the football team, and he was riding on a horse. And the football players were running behind him. So this is a spoof kind of movie.
SPEAKER_02:So Julius Carey is the coach. Gene Simmons was in that movie? Was he? According to Google. The new guy, 2002, comedy slash teen.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. What's the main character's name again? His real name? The coach? No. He's a young, nerdy-looking guy. Dizzy Harrison. DJ
SPEAKER_02:Qualls, he's the one from Road Trip. Yes. Yeah, he's the little skinny kid, you know. Eliza Dushku's in that movie. I know I've seen Road Trip. Oh, my God, dog. I've got to see it. Yeah, so it's a funny movie. He's a real skinny kid that they get into the black fraternity. Yes. He does
SPEAKER_01:stepping and stuff like that. He's in Road Trip, yes. Eliza Dushku's in it. Eddie Griffin. He's also in The Core, which is a terrible movie. movie but i love to watch it um about the uh the cores the earth's core stops moving yeah and it interferes with a bunch of different things anyway he's he's in that movie
SPEAKER_02:okay what approximately where in that movie are you
SPEAKER_01:there's a there there are a couple of scenes that take place out in like an outdoor lunch setting right okay and when one of those scenes it's it's like near the middle of the movie um they're in that back door area and before they zoom into the conversation between the main characters, they're panned out and the coach on a white horse rides by and says something like, move it, you maggots or whatever. And then us football players in white football uniforms, white helmet, white jerseys run by right behind him. Oh, really? Yeah. That's cool. That was it. That
SPEAKER_02:should be on your business card, man. Extra on the new
SPEAKER_01:guy. You know what? The food cart made it all worth it. Zooey Deschanel is in it,
SPEAKER_02:which my brother would love. He loves her for some reason. Tommy Lee. Horatio Sanz.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, there were a lot of people. It was a star-studded movie.
SPEAKER_02:And
SPEAKER_01:Dr. DLH. I think that's why.
SPEAKER_02:I don't see him on here. I think that's why the food cart was so great. Valente Rodriguez. He was in Blood In, Blood Out. He's the one with his brothers. Hey, it's my brother's GTO. Do you remember him? He's also in George Lopez. He's the neighbor. Yeah, yeah. He's in it. He's from the Valley. Really? Yeah, that guy's from the Valley.
SPEAKER_01:Would this qualify as code switching? What? Poor college student, so I just signed up for an extra on a
SPEAKER_02:movie. No, they're just trying to buy your beer for the weekend. Did you get paid?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, they paid us. We got paid. I think you had to work three hours or more, something like that. They paid us$75 a day when you were shooting, but they also gave you access to the food truck. And I kid you not, they gave you whatever you wanted at that thing. So it was definitely a cushy gig. Wow. Okay,
SPEAKER_02:so... with code switching. It was a fun
SPEAKER_01:experience.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So why was that brought up?
SPEAKER_01:Take me back. Because I just mentioned it because you talked about Shonuf. Oh,
SPEAKER_02:okay. That's the tie-in. I thought it had to do with Cold Switch. No, it has to do with the main character.
SPEAKER_01:I wish you had long hair so you could do that Shogun. Am I not the baddest? Am I
SPEAKER_02:the prettiest? Here's something to get back on topic. It's a question. I don't know about you guys, but if I am walking past a minority, my head... does the what's up the up the up yes whenever it's a anglo yeah and i walk by them it's a nod down yeah a nod
SPEAKER_01:down you guys do the same thing yeah yeah i think clearly we all know this
SPEAKER_02:code so i i wrote about this on facebook it's i'll have to find it but yes there is a distinct uh uh when you say i need to talk to you you just kind of do the Tilt to the side. In the direction. Yeah, let's adjourn to the... Yeah, I'll find it. But I did some research on the different ways because they said that people like... Somebody that's white would take it as a little bit of, not disrespect, but didn't understand it when you would do that. It's someone you know. You know what I'm saying? And they don't know what to do with that. You know what I'm saying? So you kind of... I think it's a trial and error. You, you end up coming across that, but originally you, you, as a kid, you probably wouldn't do that because you're used to just say, Hey, you know, what's up, what's up. Right. And, oh man, let me, let me find it. Y'all continue. And if I can find it, I'll, um, yeah,
SPEAKER_01:I don't know. I honestly don't ever remember like, uh, thinking about it and deciding on purpose that it was something that needed to be done. It just happens. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And I kind of brought it up too because you had to pose the question like throughout the course of the month, how many times are you aware of your code switch? And I had the same ones as Jaime, but I was also thinking, yeah, even whenever I'm walking outside and just walking past a certain group and I'm ultimately deciding if I'm– Nodding up or nodding
SPEAKER_01:down. Yeah. But I mean, even making assumptions, right? Like if you exit your house, your apartment, whatever, and you start, I don't know, walking down the block in your own neighborhood, you see somebody walking in the other direction. You make a judgment as to whether they can be a part of that neighborhood or not. And then you either give the heads up nod or you give the heads
SPEAKER_02:down. And if you notice, the heads up nod goes back even further the more you're connected with them. And I found it. It is night code number 19. There's a night code. You're welcome. Yes. Prior to addressing brothers, all brothers shall be aware of the multitude of head nods. They are as follows. It says, head nod down is for acknowledgement, as in a downward head nod communicates that I acknowledge you exist and we have noticed each other existing. Okay. A head nod up is for recognition. An upward head nod communicates that I know you. Head nod to the right is to let us adjourn to the nearest room and discuss a private matter. And a head nod to the left is let us retire for the evening. And so there you go. I'm out of here, bro. Yes. Yeah. So the right is like, let's go. Yeah. And so night code 19. Yeah. It all comes back to night code, sir. Well,
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I do know that the, the head nod down is, uh, it was, it was common because when you were wearing hats, it was the tip of the hat, right? Yes, ma'am. Yeah. Well, it went from, it went first from full removal. You had to remove the hat and then it just went to a tip, which, you know, it's like I would move my head, but you know what I'm saying? So I'm just going to, Tap the head. Got too lazy. Got too lazy. Yeah. But where does the upward come from? Probably the same place that a grito comes from. So a grito is a...
SPEAKER_00:And
SPEAKER_01:then you reverse it and it's
SPEAKER_00:yee-haw.
SPEAKER_01:That was a terrible one. If you're going to bother doing it. It was terrible. Yeah, it was. But we're going to isolate that clip. When you do it backwards,
SPEAKER_02:it's a grito. Oh, my God. Come on now. You're stretching.
SPEAKER_01:No, it is. What's backwards? Yeehaw, put it backwards, it's a grito. Oh, no, that's a reach if I remember. Oh, my God. Wow.
SPEAKER_02:So back to code switching. Yeah, they're code switching right now. They know what I'm talking about. They're
SPEAKER_00:over here nodding up. They're over here nodding up right now.
SPEAKER_01:Hey, what's up? No, we're nodding no right now. Nodding up.
SPEAKER_02:So, you know, we did talk about different movies that had code switching. Yeah. The Last Dragon was one of them that I remember. Just because that movie we saw so many times, it was crazy. The other one is, recent movie is The Departed. It has a great scene with Martin Sheen, Mark Wahlberg, and Leonardo DiCaprio, where Mark Wahlberg is sort of goading Leonardo DiCaprio about him dropping his R's. And when he hangs out with his dad in the Southie Projects and when he goes to his mom's, that he's your prep school kid. And so in that movie, you'll see him go from yes sir and all this and that to complete Boston accent as he goes undercover. So that's another one. You have different movies like Coco and all those other ones that infuse Spanish. I know... Anytime they introduce Hispanic characters, they always have, like, oh, we're going over here, mijo. You know what I'm saying? It kind of lets you know she understands or that person understands Hispanic culture or Mexican culture. But there's different movies that have that. There's actually a movie called Code Switching that I've never seen, but it didn't look that great when I looked it up. So whenever we talk about code switching, do you think it's more empowerment? Or a burden. It's not a burden, I don't think.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think in principle, if we're talking about why it exists, yeah, it's a burden. It's a burden that, again, bringing it back to the beginning, that the marginalized
SPEAKER_02:have to use. Oh, okay. Right? Because
SPEAKER_01:if we consider that everyone had the same... access to education and was educated in the same way and there wasn't such a big disparity in money and privilege and, you know, and again, access, all of those things, we would all be closer to speaking the same language in the same way.
SPEAKER_02:But would you want to?
SPEAKER_01:No, I'm not saying that diversity is bad. This isn't addressing diversity. What I'm saying is that code switching exists because the privileged Absolutely. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, what is the fear, though, is that the system is going to change you anyway?
SPEAKER_01:Well, and I think that depends largely on, that's where, if you make it into that system, and then we again talk about that individual constitution, right? Okay, you've been calling me Jamie for years, right? I've made it in now. I'm in now. You're going to, my name is Jaime. It's not Jamie. You're going to, you're going to do that. And then, like I said, the people who are coming behind you that don't have that level of access are going to start code switching to meet what they expect from you who is in that level of access. Right. And then they'll, and then they'll do that. So the way that you reach that hand back and pull others up will matter because if you don't, institute those things of equality and fairness and all that other stuff, then the code switching remains.
SPEAKER_02:Do you feel like that code switching is just language? Could code switching also be like you learning about hunting or fishing or golf whenever you're in an interview and they say, hey, Jaime, do you hunt? I felt sometimes I'd be like, man, I need to learn this stuff because I have been asked that. What do you do for fun? And sometimes I'm like, man, what I do for fun isn't what this person does for fun. Let me find something that I know is going to catch this guy's attention. And do you think that's a form of code switching? Like kind of modeling your behavior so that it's favorable whenever you're in an interview setting or trying to gain someone's favor?
SPEAKER_01:Are you asking in general or are you asking
SPEAKER_02:me? I'm asking both of you.
SPEAKER_01:Cause I, I have an opinion on this, but you can weigh in. No, I will. I think it's, have you been in that situation where you're
SPEAKER_02:like, yeah, well, but at the same time, is it, is it more just trying to make a connection with somebody? Because, uh, even, even within close circles, there's just sometimes where you want to have a topic of discussion or you want to be able to, to converse. Right. And so you got to find kind of a, a mutual lane. I know, but that's, That's putting the burden– back to the burden. I didn't think about it that way, but the way you were talking, I was like, okay, you got me on board. But it's a burden to you. Yeah, and from a workplace standpoint or– It's a burden on you to fit in. If you're trying to move upward in anything, for that matter, and you're trying to conform to get to that next step, yeah, it is a burden because now you're having to figure this out whenever– At the end of the day, it has nothing to do with the actual, can I do the job? Yes.
SPEAKER_01:It's not the larger context. It's very specific to the group, the specific group that you're- And it changes based on
SPEAKER_02:the person you're in front of. Exactly. Because then that person, if you don't have that connection, you're probably thinking, well, they don't want to have me around because I'm the awkward guy that doesn't hunt.
SPEAKER_01:I don't think that it is code switching in the same general context that we're talking about in the larger frame, right? General society. Because we're talking, if we're speaking anything that's in the realm of hobby or whatever, this is jargon specific, right? But your ability to utilize the jargon in the appropriate ways may help someone else know what your depth of knowledge is in that realm. And you don't want to risk looking silly, right? But I do think that that is a much less severe form of code switching. So I'm not even sure. That might be on the cusp of code switching. I just think that it's you being in a specific group and having to take the time to learn what that thing is specifically. Right. So just for example, in fitness, if I start telling you things that are like... As a fitness professional? As a fitness professional. As a fitness professional. And I was having this discussion with a new coach, a new fitness coach that I've been training recently. A
SPEAKER_02:new fitness professional
SPEAKER_01:coach? A new fitness professional coach. And during this training, when... When she expressed this concern also about not knowing the name of all these things, and I was like, it doesn't really matter, right? When you come up with something that is a SOTS press, for instance, right? A SOTS press is your ability to get into a deep squat and lift something overhead, whether it be kettlebells, dumbbells, barbell, whatever. You are doing an overhead press while in a squat position. So that's a SOTS press. And... I was like, but nobody– but in the fitness realm, anyone who is– The fitness
SPEAKER_02:professional realm?
SPEAKER_01:In the fitness professional realm. Anyone who is serious about the realm is not going to care that you don't know the specific label of a movement. Can you tell me how to do the movement even using simple language? Well, I would. Right? But–
SPEAKER_02:I would want to make sure that person knows. You're the coach, right? But there might be some... As a finance and banking professional, I would want to know.
SPEAKER_00:We'll see.
SPEAKER_01:But if you go into a fitness class being taught by a fitness professional, even if I told you nothing else and I told you in this next one, 40 seconds worth, I want you to give me a SOTS press, everybody's going to be like, what the hell is that? Yeah. That doesn't matter as much as... You know the lingo, but you're still fat. Well, right. And so essentially the label... It doesn't matter. I have to be able to tell you how to do the movement. But I don't know if there are other groups that might be like, ha-ha, he doesn't know the name of this. Right. I don't know. You
SPEAKER_02:know what? We're talking about code switching and all that. But since you brought up the topic and you are a fitness professional, I want to read you something. And I want your fitness professional opinion on it. If I have
SPEAKER_01:one.
SPEAKER_02:You will have one. You have opinion on everything. Come on now.
SPEAKER_01:Do
SPEAKER_02:I? Yes. Listeners, please. That's probably true. I'm going to ask your wife and she'll let you know. We were watching a movie. It's called Smile 2. It's a horror movie. It's pretty good. My daughter and I just started watching horror movies a long time ago. This was just the new movie that we watched over the break. One of the characters says this. And I want you to decipher what that means. And it's not hard. It's just the wording to me was off that I had to like, I had to remember it. And then when we stopped watching the movie, I went back and looked it up and wrote it down. And this is what she said. And he grabbed this metal gym weight from like a bench press. And then he like just smashed his whole face with it. As a fitness professional.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Is that how you would have worded that? Grabbed a metal gym weight from, like, a bench press. Well, I know what it is. I know what it is, too. But isn't it, like, really wordy to just explain a
SPEAKER_01:weight? Well, what kind of weight?
SPEAKER_02:What kind of weight is it? It's a metal gym weight from like a bench
SPEAKER_01:press. Okay. So if it's a metal gym weight from a bench press.
SPEAKER_02:But from like a bench press?
SPEAKER_01:That doesn't make sense. That's a filler word. But now that you know that, what is the piece of equipment? It's just a metal weight. It's just
SPEAKER_02:a weight. It's like a 35-pound weight.
SPEAKER_01:Which is called a what? You're just calling it a weight. What is it?
SPEAKER_02:It's a metal gym weight, which I don't have a problem with it. The problem I had was... From like a bench press.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, but that tells me which specific item it is. That makes you go from,
SPEAKER_02:oh. No, it's one of those like, okay, so not squats, not overhead press, not deadlifts. It's specifically
SPEAKER_01:from like a bench press. Yeah, a bench press.
SPEAKER_02:That's terrible.
SPEAKER_01:Which tells me it's a barbell
SPEAKER_02:with plates on it. No, no, no. All this was was the weight.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, they grabbed a plate. A plate, yeah. That's what they meant. Metal weight. But if you don't know. Metal
SPEAKER_02:weight plate.
SPEAKER_01:So if you don't know that it's called a plate, though, they just grabbed a metal weight. So I think that
SPEAKER_02:she would have just said metal gym weight. I think everybody understands what that is. But when she said from like a bench press.
SPEAKER_01:I think if you ask all your gym bros and if you're really trying to. Bring this story home. They would be like, yeah, but which one? Because some might hurt more than others.
SPEAKER_02:All I know is when we're watching the movie, Joaquin and I looked at each other like, what? From like a bench press. That's what drew me into like, you know, like what? That's what makes it horror.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, my God.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Anyway. And that's the story right there. She said from her treadmill.
SPEAKER_02:From like a bench press. From her stair climber. So what is our board approved? So board approved. Code switching. Is it a burden?
SPEAKER_01:Is that what we're going to?
SPEAKER_02:No, I'm trying to flesh out a verdict.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I mean, again, that's my opinion. It is a burden if we want to recognize it as burden. to why we have to do it, but is it a necessary one?
SPEAKER_02:Yes, it's a necessary evil. It's a burden that could be used for empowerment. Okay, but do you code switch to podcast?
SPEAKER_01:Yes. I don't know. I think that would be a marginal one. I may not. I think the thing I like most about podcasting around you both is that I get to say things in the way that I would generally say them anyway, just probably a little less profane. Because again, in this hyper-masculine realm, we have a tendency to be a little more profane than we would be on the podcast. So sort of?
SPEAKER_02:Sort of, okay. I'm just more refined. Oh my
SPEAKER_01:God. That's not code switching, that's just lying. That's lying.
SPEAKER_02:All right, so board approved. Code switching- Is a thing. is a necessary evil that can be used for empowerment. Or survival. Or survival. Yeah. Right? Correct. You good with that?
SPEAKER_01:I'm good with
SPEAKER_02:that. All right. Well then, board approved. Thank you, guys. I appreciate you sticking around this long. And join us next time for a totally different topic. Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others. Post about it on your social media and or leave a rating and review. To catch all the latest from us, you can follow us on Instagram and X. So thanks again, and we'll see you next time.
