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The Chivalry Chronicles
We discuss topics such as Brotherhood, Masculinity, and Fatherhood. A modern manly approach to chivalry.
Or better yet, Guys Stuff that Guys Do, Cuz We're Guys.
The Chivalry Chronicles
Episode 008 - Teens Now vs Teens Then & Some Parenting Tips
Dr. DLH, David, & Jaime discuss the differences between teenagers now versus the teenagers then.
They provide a guide and the following tips:
- Know that every kid is different
- Read
- Keeps lines of communications open
- And...get some adult beverages
#Board Approved
If by some chance, some stroke of luck, or some act of God, you have stumbled upon this broadcast, you are listening to The Chivalry Chronicles with your host, DLH, David, and me, Jaime. I hope you're ready, because I know we are. So let's get into it. Hey, we're back with another episode from Chivalry Chronicles. Good afternoon, guys. Today, we're going to talk about teens. Teens then versus teens now. And we're going to give you some parenting tips. So we were kind of kicking this idea around. I was talking to DLH about it. And David. So what's going on over here? God damn it. What? Oh, man. Okay, now that we got everything settled, everybody has their drink, right? I don't want to hear any more opening. Got a good five minutes. Yeah, we had a little bit of rest to make sure everybody got a drink.
SPEAKER_00:That was a good laugh, too.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So, we're all dads. I think we said that when we kind of introduced the podcast. David and I both have teenagers, I believe. David? Yeah. Isaiah is 14. Yeah. So we, we, um, actually we, we all do. We all do. We all have teenagers. Yeah. And so we were, we were talking about it and then we said, you know what, let's, let's discuss, you know, teens then versus teens now, meaning, you know, when we were, when we were teenagers, kind of the stuff that we knew basic, uh, versus what our kids are having to go through and sort of learning from sort of our mistakes. And so, um, This is, we felt like this was a good enough topic to bring to you guys. David, we were talking about it and I stated when we were kind of doing our prep work, I'm really interested in what you have to say because DLH and I, oh, first off, Dr. DLH and I were, you know, we're married and so we kind of, you know, we have, you know, we kind of, it's not a co-parenting thing, you know, we're there, but David, I mean, you see your son every once in a while, right? Every other weekend or something like that?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so I have a 50-50 agreement with his mom. And we keep that kind of loose. So at the end of the day, essentially, we let him choose where he wants to go. But from a practical standpoint, during the week, his school is closer to his mom's house. So he's typically there during the week. And then come weekend, it's like, okay, you want to come over with me? Do you want to stay with mom? Do you have something going? Because then sometimes he's going over to his friends or whatever. And those types of dynamics happen. So I don't necessarily see him like, for example, we're in October here and we're in the final weekend of October. I hadn't seen him all month. I was supposed to see him last weekend and he was going to help with Fright Night, but unfortunately he was sick, so he didn't get to come out or really participate then. But Yeah, it does make for a dynamic. I wouldn't say an ideal dynamic that anybody wants to be in, but those are situations that I know quite a bit of folks are in.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I think with what is the new statistics on marriages are like less than 50% now. of marriages fail, or more than 50% fail now?
SPEAKER_00:It was more. I haven't specifically read into it, but the latest I heard when somebody was talking on it is that that rate is declining. Oh, really? Yeah. Well, that's good. Although, I think the statistic on people who don't want to get married is on the rise.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. That's the other thing. Well, before we get off topic, yeah, the other statistic that I read is like millennials... The only reason they're buying houses is not to get a family is so to give more room for their pets, which I was like, yeah, that kind of checks out. I know my daughter's 22, you know, she's kind of, she has two cats, you know, that type of stuff. But
SPEAKER_00:anyway. Yeah. Well, and now the post COVID market makes that even harder.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. Houses are pretty expensive, but so David, because I, I, You know, we can get to Dr. DLH and I.
SPEAKER_02:But,
SPEAKER_01:you know, if you wanted to.
SPEAKER_02:I was just going to say a quick timeout, but very notable is that we now have a doctor in the room. So, unfortunately. Is there a doctor in the house? Yeah, we have a doctor in the house now. Now, we may not get much. from this doctor but we are in the presence of a doctor so congratulations to you dlh i know it's been a a journey that you've been on for a while and and uh glad to see it kind of come to fruition and and uh you've accomplished it so i'm gonna yeah fans what do y'all think Well, got to turn that.
SPEAKER_01:Hey, there they are. There they are. Man, we had to
SPEAKER_02:we had to spruce them up a little
SPEAKER_01:bit.
SPEAKER_00:I was like crickets. Yeah. They're like, yeah, we don't know what that is. Yeah. Well, thank you for that. Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I think you stated there was one percent of
SPEAKER_00:of Latinos. Latinos have a Ph.D.
SPEAKER_01:Wow. So I I think I know to let these cousin is also. Well, too. She has two cousins. Good. both females, which I was like, is this only like a female thing? Mostly. Yeah. Yes. And that's, that's kind of what it checks out, you know, like, um, but yeah, that's congratulations. We're, uh, we know that, um, it's been, it's been kind of a long journey, I guess for you. Oh no, it's been a long journey.
SPEAKER_00:Uh, and, and it, it doesn't even matter like the, the years, the, um, the journey itself, however long it takes for a PhD is hard, um, Yeah, and what
SPEAKER_01:was
SPEAKER_00:your
SPEAKER_01:thesis, or what
SPEAKER_00:is it on? Well, it's on, I think in brief, it's sexual violence, right? So it's rape offenses and how our varying definitions, jurisdictional definitions, impact rates of offense.
SPEAKER_01:And you chose this?
SPEAKER_00:I did, and there is no other research in this area. I chose it because we have so many different laws that are impacting... rape offenses, right? Everywhere you go. And I think that we need uniformity in law in order to address it like we do many other crimes. So I researched how our laws and how they're written specifically impact offense rates. Wow. That's
SPEAKER_02:pretty heavy, though. Yeah, it is. I would say let's have it on another podcast. I don't want to. I don't know, but I think it is a topic that I think maybe we'd like to explore with you down the road.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think it's an important one because we can weave that into many other topics. Bring
SPEAKER_01:statistics and I'm all in.
SPEAKER_00:Well, those I have plenty of. They're all in my dissertation book. So I'll be happy to quote some of those at a later time. Maybe I'll interweave some of those as we go along into other topics where it becomes relevant.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And just congratulations again to
SPEAKER_01:you, bro. Thank you. So back on task. Back on task. David, so do you want to go through, I guess, a couple of things that you see there are differences between teens then, which is when you were a teen, and what your kind of relationship you had with your parents and now? your teen now, right? Your relationship with your son. And then giving us that, I guess, a difference because it is a separate household, which, like I said, I'm interested in because I think that's becoming more the norm. I've met a lot more brothers that are divorced, that do have, you know, live separately, you know, see their kids on and off, which, you know, of course I don't do that, but I kind of wonder the things that we struggle with my wife and I are totally different than, than what you do. Cause I mean, even my wife and I get in, get into it, but like, Hey, we got to have each other's backs here, you know? And we live together, you know, we kind of have, do you know what I'm saying? We see each other every day, you know? And she gives me that look like, Hey, wait a minute, you're supposed to be like on my side. So I can only think that's just like crazy on your side.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So, uh, I, I think early on it was, uh, there, there was obviously that adjustment period and how we, parented together versus how we parented differently and I recall seeing like very specific things that I know whenever we were together it was we're not going to do this or Isaiah's not going to do that or this is our line here but then that boundary changed on her end and where I was trying to execute still and maintain that plan it was different and And so it was like a step back where it was like, well, wait a minute, didn't you say that he shouldn't be drinking Cokes? And now I'm seeing him with a Coke. And little, I don't want to say trivial things, but just little things that we had, I guess, came to an agreement on as we were together versus how it evolved or changed after we were separated. And that took, for me, getting over the fact that I don't have control. And that's the hardest thing. So as soon as you're separated, you don't have control 100% of your child at that point. Well, you kind of don't have it even when you're together, right? But not only do you not have control, you're not there to influence that decision. And that makes it really difficult. But I want to say about maybe a year and a half to two years after that, there was just kind of me in my own terms coming to, okay, I don't have control. I will not have control. He's over there. So I need to find some acceptance here, right? And that's how things then started to evolve in a good direction, right? So I am happy to say that typically on bigger issues that concern Isaiah, we usually talk to each other. If he's in trouble with his mom, when he's with me, she kind of lets me know, hey, Isaiah did this and this is what I am not letting him do or what I'm having him do as a result of that. And then now we're just trying to, I'm trying to carry that and then vice versa. So if I, hey, Isaiah did this, so whenever he goes over the house, I'm hoping you can help me by doing X, Y, Z, right? So those are kind of like the big things. And there is still some of that needing to let it go whenever I do. Sometimes I feel like some of his punishments don't fit the crime per se. Right, yeah. So you have to just kind of
SPEAKER_00:let it go. So my question then is, because if we're talking about... Co-parenting, right? And then Isaiah being the only child that you're co-parenting, right? Correct. So when you get into this particular form now, and I know that all of it is new experience when there's only the one kid, but when you get to a teenage year, right? Teenage years bring their own specific challenges, I think, and we're all learning that as we go along. Because even though we were all teenagers... We didn't view what we did as problems. We were just doing. So now that you're here, do you find that experience any different than before? Or is it the same? Do you have to go through a whole new round of questioning? Do you find yourself having to be, I don't know, going through more... Uh, time periods of like, I don't know where he's at and I got it. We need to talk more. We need to think about this more. Like, does any of that?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So I, I, I start thinking about as I grew up, I mean, my, my dad and I would spend time together quite a bit of time together. Right. But, uh, uh, we weren't conversing. Um, so I, I remember taking four hour road trips, maybe even eight hour road trips, uh, with just my dad. So it's my dad and I I'm sitting in the front seat because it's not like, uh, today's kids that sit in the backseat. Like my son is 14 and still sits in the backseat, has no desire to sit in the front seat, which is, was unheard of. Uh, back then we were fighting over the front seat. Right. Um, but, uh, uh, going back to me growing up as a as a kid uh i know my dad and i would go on these road trips and if you were to consolidate our whole entire conversation over those four hours it's probably about 15 20 minutes of conversation uh the rest of the time we're jamming out to music and listen to music uh i i i recall being a teenager and my dad falling or starting to fall asleep on the road so that would be whenever it was like hey dad blah blah let's chat let's chat about whatever. Just bringing up like random things here and there to kind of keep the conversation going. But fast forward to today, I kind of find myself where I am with Isaiah and there's certain things that don't actively come to my mind to just like breach conversation, right? And then after I drop him off or he's no longer with me, I'm thinking, oh, I should have probably asked him about this or I should have asked him about that. And Well,
SPEAKER_00:then would you say that you don't, or maybe whenever you are traveling that similar to your dad, you don't talk a whole lot?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, it's difficult. It's not that I don't converse. I know I do it more with Isaiah than I recall. But I think also because of the way I was raised, it's just hard to like, breach certain subjects with your child. Because, you know, I still see my kid as a kid, but he's basically a man. I mean, the kid had hairs on his leg at 10 years old, dark hairs at that. So it was like, wow, this has evolved. And for me, it's even almost like that sadness, too, because... I feel like I miss half his life essentially. So whenever I come to him, there's, uh, I think for me, I'm also, uh, still, still navigating through how to, how to transition knowing that, you know, this kid's going to be driving a car here in a couple of years, this kid's going to be, uh, doing certain things. And, and I can't, I can't cuddle him like I do a child, but I still want to. I want to do those kinds of things, or I want to protect him from everything, but I know he's got to be exposed to certain aspects of life to get
SPEAKER_00:through it. Yeah, well, when I think about, you know, like I've heard you say that before about not having a whole lot of conversation when traveling, and I thought back on my own childhood about that sort of stuff. I really don't remember a whole lot of conversation either. Certainly nothing that was targeted about anything that I was experiencing or going through or whatever. None of it was ever focused like that. It was just more observational. What do we see out the window or that sort of stuff. Slug bug. And I can't tell you where it came from, but I am like on the other end of the spectrum there. I almost talk too much, right? I know y'all can't view that. Y'all can't see that happening whatsoever. No, absolutely, absolutely. The runtime on DLH on this podcast is about 80%. Finding things to talk about is not one of the problems I have. Choosing them. Choosing them and, yeah, just sort of staying there. But I use that. I think a lot about like the... junk time, right? I think I've mentioned that before the junk time in between. I, the hardest thing for me is trying to decide whether the conversation I want to have is something that is not in the car. We need to be face to face when we're sitting at home, um, versus the things that we talk about in the, that can be in the car, right? Because some things, if we're going to talk about the serious realm of conversation, there's some things that, um, I think that y'all can agree with this. There's some things that are harder to talk about where you prefer not to be face-to-face and eye-to-eye, right? You have to say things and you're next to each other. But it would be awkward for us to be looking at each other. You're lifting cinder blocks and stuff. So we have some of those conversations that happen in the car. And if they need to go beyond that, then we'll do that. We'll table it to later on. But even if we're not doing that... I will try and talk about anything. Like when I think about their interests. So when I have both kids in the car, they're going to be subject to whatever music I like. And this is just an example. And then I start to talk to them about music and all of that stuff. When they're in the car individually with me, I might choose the music based on their particular preferences and then use that. And it could be anything as easy as like... singing a song with them or dancing in the car uh and then i'll use that kind of as a segue to talk about whatever interests what are you doing no concerns now when you're saying
SPEAKER_02:whatever like
SPEAKER_00:are you are you
SPEAKER_02:uh in your mind are you actively trying to do like uh a specific type of parenting thing or
SPEAKER_01:is
SPEAKER_02:it just more just like...
SPEAKER_01:No, they'll be listening to Doja Cat and it's like, speaking of feline cancer.
SPEAKER_00:I
SPEAKER_01:was
SPEAKER_00:like, what? Dad? Stop. So if we're thinking about this from a parenting perspective, right? I don't want... All conversation that for them to reach a point where they feel like if I'm trying to talk to them. Oh, he must be trying to get at a problem. Oh, hell, you're coming in. He's gonna he's gonna talk about this and and because when we when we have a targeted conversation, I can easily go. 45 minutes an hour uh yeah of this stuff back and forth
SPEAKER_01:which i think is a very good um deterrent yeah because if you don't want to hear me talk for 45 minutes don't don't do something to make me talk for 45 minutes yeah because i think that's even worse yeah that's even worse sometimes is is your kid or i think it's worse for the kid is hearing you for 40 minutes rather than like you know, like getting swatted or something, you know, like,
SPEAKER_00:yeah. And I have used that when we talk about something usually, uh, you know, again to my team. Right. And, and then it's kind of like, is this brief mentioning of it enough or do we need to sit down? Yeah. And he knows what I mean. 45 minutes to an hour. He was like, nah, we're good. He's like, no, we're, we're good. Cause I'm a doctor. So I'm a doctor now. So, um, Yeah, so I think even outside of those, when we're in the car, that is a parenting strategy I use, is I try to fill up all of those times with any conversation, because if we can have even fun conversations in between, then it indicates to them that when I am talking to them, it doesn't always mean problem. Yeah. Um, and what I'm hoping on the backend is that, um, they can come to me with both wins and losses. Yeah. Right. So talk to me when the things are good, but also come talk to me when the things are bad. Um, and then I also try and use some things too, when I am in, even in the car or whatever, and we talk about something and then we bring it up. Um, and if they are angry or whatever, and you give them the space, um, uh, if you're not ready, then fine. You can just tell, even if it's just tell me to, to listen, but you don't need to hear nothing from me. Yeah. I'm good with that. Right. Yeah. Um, and then, and then after that, cool, we'll listen to music so that we can take it all expectation of conversation down. Um, and then just leave it at that. So yeah. How about you strategies
SPEAKER_01:for you? So, um, so what I wanted to, to kind of lay out, this is what I, I tell a lot of brothers and, and friends that start having teenagers, I kind of give them a guideline, right? I say, like, my favorite age for kids was anywhere between three to six. I love that age because they believe everything you say. They're, you know, they're holding your hand as you walk in. I loved them. And so whenever they got, like, 12 to 14, I like to say, like, they get mean. They go crazy. out of their minds. They become monsters. And it just becomes like, you don't know this kid anymore. And they say very, I mean, stuff that cuts deep to you. And then, and then when they started getting like 15 and 16, you know, I would say they start coming back to earth. You know, they start realizing, man, maybe I was a little bit hard on dad or mom. Then 17 and 18, you know, they get more introspective. I was telling you guys, I was like, with Joaquin, you know, sometimes he still snaps, right? He's like, oh, you know, whatever. And then I'm like, hey, son, calm down. And he's like, sorry, dad. I had a bad day. You know, this is what happened. And I'm usually like, okay, cool. Let's talk about that because that's important. With my daughter, we kind of went through the same thing, 12 to 14. Man, she was just a totally different person. So the things that we did, with them from the time that they were kids, like babies, is something that my wife came up with is it would happen every time they got in trouble, right? And it's like, why did you get in trouble? And then they would say, because I did this. And then you was like, what happens when you do that? Well, these are the consequences, right? And then at the end I was like, okay, so what do you do now? Like give dad or mom a hug and a kiss. And then they'd leave, right? And so every time they got in trouble, they kind of knew, okay, this is what I did wrong. This is what happens when I do that. And this is what I need to do. You need to just kind of, you know, hug and then hug it out. So with our kids, I mean, just like y'all were saying, it's totally different. You know, I had the same relationship with my dad. My dad's old school, you know, tough love type of dude. We never talked about feelings. We never talked about... It was basically, I'm going to tell you the two, the three times he's ever called me on the phone. One was when my grandmother passed away. The other two were butt dials. You know what I'm saying? At least you were at the top of the list. It was, I, and so for a while there, I started, I started, really freaking out when I got a call from my dad. I was like, Oh my God, you know, who died? Um, because it's just not a thing. Um, and I think I told y'all this story. It was other time I called my mom, uh, because that's who I call, you know, every, every Sunday or every other, every other week. And then, uh, I call my mom and my dad answers and I'm thinking, Hey, it's my dad. You know, like he, he saw me calling. This isn't me playing. He saw me calling. He's like, Hey, that's my son. my favorite son so i'm gonna pick it up and talk to him and then he's like hey and i was like hey you know how's it going like i was happy you know and then he's like yeah um your mom's taking a shower she said if any of her kids called to answer it so what up like what do you want oh um Nothing, I
SPEAKER_00:guess. I already know what the deal is whenever my dad answers the phone, my mom's phone, right? And he might do it because she's not around it. He'll pick it up and he's like, hey, here's your mom.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, exactly. When we were in college, or when I was in college, he would call, like my mom would call me, and then he would get on the phone and he's like, how's the car? And I was like, it's good. He's like, you checked the law? I was like, yeah. uh, your sticker registration on it. I was like, yep, everything's good. My dad, everything's good. Yeah. And I was like, all right. Okay. Here's your mom. And I was like, I did my job. Yeah. And Oh my God. I went, I went to Dallas one time and my sticker was out. Right. And he had this look on his face of disappointment. I was like, man, bro. Like, um, it's not that big of a deal. And he's like, no, but he was like, you need to get that fixed. Now. Now. I was like, my dad does that same thing. I'll do that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Now, I'm curious. So, I know both of you have expressed to me in a little bit here how you've changed the dynamic with your own kids. Yes. Right? But what made you compelled to do that was... Like
SPEAKER_01:reading books?
SPEAKER_02:Reading books.
SPEAKER_00:Boo. Yeah, probably reading books.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I read a lot of books about parenting. One of the ones that I think I've talked about this book before, it's called Bringing Up Boys, Dr. James Dobson. And I think I've said this on the podcast before. He gets really religious, and I'm like, if you just put that aside. a lot of the things that he says are really, you know, helpful, especially with a boy, you know, because our first child was a girl. And, you know, that was totally different for me, too. Like, you know, I have a sister. But, man, when you have a daughter, it's totally different. Like, it's just the things that you go through, like the stuff that you watch, you know, all the princess movies that I never watched a princess movie before that. So, yeah. when I, when I started reading about parenting, because you don't know anything, you know, you know what your parents did, and then you start figuring out, maybe that wasn't the best thing, you know, maybe, maybe it's okay to go, hey, good job, son, you know, maybe it's okay to go, I'm proud of you, I love you, like that type of stuff, like, because I didn't get any of that, and you do, when you notice it with other kids, you're like, Hey, that'd be kind of cool. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And so, so I, I have a question now based on what you're saying. Okay. So reading is helpful, right? I would say as a parenting tip. Oh yeah. Even if you're not going to just believe everything that you read, right. Read, use it as information to inform what you're going to do from there going forward. Um, now the question I have is why, what drove you to want to read up more instead of just doing what you had experienced?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, so I've always read even as a kid. It, you know, from the time I was in the third to fourth grade, I read all the time, like I read every book I could come across. And so when I graduated from college, and my wife and I started, you know, moved to San Antonio, and then we started thinking about having kids.
UNKNOWN:And
SPEAKER_01:My wife reads, too. I mean, we're both avid readers. And so she started buying books about pregnancy, right? So what to expect when you're expecting. A Latina's got a pregnancy. All this stuff. And so I was like, you know, we're having kids. So I started reading those books, too. And then when you start reading them, you're like, I'm learning stuff I didn't know because we've never gone through a pregnancy. You know what I'm saying? And so you're like... I'm a very research-oriented person. If I don't know something, I'll go read on it, even if it's Wikipedia. I'll watch a show, like I watch Vikings, and I was like, let's see if all this is true. That's true, that's true, that is not true. So that's the same thing with kids. So whenever we found out we were going to have a daughter, I started reading about just child... Well, my wife isn't teaching, so she knew already a lot of stuff about... Not... parenting but because you're a teacher you read a lot about human nature and and how to teach and all that stuff and so when she would tell me stuff she's like oh i read this in this book i was like okay i'm gonna read that so you just kind of want to get ready and so then when we had a boy i was like now i want to read a book on just about boys because i've read just on parenting i want a specific book on boys and you know stuff that's different with them And so Bringing Up Boys was a really good example of that where he talks about just the nature of having a son as opposed to a daughter. You know, that type
SPEAKER_02:of stuff. Now, to fast forward and to kind of hone in more on the topic today on teenagers, is there specific books that either you have read or are reading
SPEAKER_00:specific to raising teenagers? I was just thinking that now because I have read a book on how– you know, boys learn best, but the title of it right now escapes me. I actually have two of them at home now. One of them I am currently reading. I should know the title, but I don't in the moment. I could always bring that up later. What I will say is for anyone who is... expecting, right? Like you just said, the Latina's Guide to Pregnancy, right? Yeah. I've never heard of that book. Yeah, it's downstairs. What if they're not Latina? Okay, so no, this just made me think of another sort of, we'll call it a specialty book, right? For anyone out there. any men out there that are having, that are expecting, that are like, I don't want to read all that stuff, right? There is a book out there. I know of it because I purchased it for somebody else who didn't want to do all that reading. A dummy's guide? It's called A Caveman's Guide to Pregnancy. Yeah. It's hilarious. It gives you real information, but it puts it in bite-sized chunks in a humorous way that... you can consume and also just laugh at while you're reading it.
SPEAKER_01:And that was the Latinas one. It was like what your tias didn't tell you about pregnancy, which it was true. A lot of the stuff they glaze over, like the what to expect when you're expecting. They don't tell you about all the afterbirth stuff. which this book went into, and I was like, what?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, good. I was like, oh, my God. Yeah, but I think that once you start with something simple, even if reading is not your thing, starting out with something like The Caveman's Guide, and you just want to keep on reading, right? Not that you only want to read parenting books. Read whatever you want. Right. But I think occasionally, especially if you are concerned with, like– sociological aspects of things that you think may be influencing your kids' lives, but you don't understand that. Go read a book. Start getting perspective. And even if you're not going to do that, find articles on the internet if you don't want to.
SPEAKER_01:Hey, listen to podcasts.
SPEAKER_00:Listen to podcasts. The
SPEAKER_01:Art of Manliness had a really great podcast on boys. I'll put that in the write-up. But that was the other one that I did. So whenever Joaquin was probably like 10 or 11, This was just about boys at that age, which I think I've said it on a podcast before. It's the whole thing about they see everything as negative, like somebody's trying to start shit with them. So that was that podcast, and it talks about just because they're getting a new rush of testosterone. So I love that because I was like, man, Joaquin is getting super aggressive right now. Everything is a fight, and I have to somehow... understand it, and then let them know, like, I was your age at one point, which I, you know, you hate that as a kid, right? When you're a teenager, like, God, when, like, 50 years ago, like, bro, it's different now. And it is. It is
SPEAKER_02:different. You know, and speaking of that, too, relating directly to teens, of course, they're going through transitions, right? Pretty significant transitions, especially during their middle school years. So is there something that that you picked up and maybe even altered, uh, based on those, those transitions that they went through? Well, I mean,
SPEAKER_00:first universally, what do you see any, um, not that you would have noticed it when you yourself are a teen, but what behaviors are universal that anyone who is maybe going to have a teen in the next couple of years might expect to see. And then I think if we, um, start looking at what was your question
SPEAKER_02:like as that transition is happening like is there anything that you're like okay i would have i would have thought i'm going this direction on addressing why are you getting uh hairs why is your voice changing why on a girl's side why are you going through these uh cycles or changes yeah uh why all of a sudden are like Is there something, did you just kind of let it play out in general? Are you letting it play out? Are you taking an approach that you think is right but then altering it?
SPEAKER_01:Because I think it's that. It depends on your kid, right? Liana was always way ahead of the curve. A lot of stuff that she did, she kind of did on her own. And we're like, oh, hell, you're already doing this? Joaquin is totally different. Right. Um, so I think it depends on your kid. Like the, the tips that we may give you, if you can call them tips, um, it, it is dependent on your kid and every kid's different. And, and even my two kids, same household, same parents, we try to maintain a similar parenting style, but it changes. I mean,
SPEAKER_02:it has to say, and that, that is, that is one thing I, I know rewind is, When parents are expecting, there's always family, friends, oh, get ready for this, the terrible twos or this. And a lot of that, yeah, a lot of that I didn't experience. So usually my advice whenever it comes to parenting is like, It's all going to depend. Maybe you experience this. Maybe you don't. This is just what I went through. But I don't ever say, oh, you want to make sure this, this, and this because it happened to me and
SPEAKER_01:you should. So the tips that I was given earlier about when they kind of lose their mind, I say that because both of my kids went through that. And when I talk to other parents, their kids went through that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I feel like that's a bit of a given. Yeah. It's... Now, we can't tell you exactly what that's going to look like. That depends on your household parenting style, all that stuff. They were so mean. But yeah, I think because we were talking about this before we even got into recording, but Esai, who is 13, he's barely into his teenage years. And there are some very noticeable differences in how he does things and how he relates to us. And he and my wife, man, sometimes they are... They're at each other, on each other's nerves, we'll say that. And, you know, I don't necessarily interject unless I'm asked to. Yes. But that is sometimes necessary to do. Yeah. And in talking to him. And then I just have to bring an awareness to what he's doing and why his mom is mad. Yes. Right. And it's not like I'm not asking you to not feel something. You're not being his
SPEAKER_01:lawyer.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Yeah. But like, you know, feel whatever you're feeling. But there's still an appropriate way to behave yourself. Correct. And you will bring yourself back to that. Yes. With some decorum, right, and respect and that sort of
SPEAKER_02:stuff. Do you find yourself giving him grace because you know him? he's transitioning yes i feel so
SPEAKER_00:because he's because all the things like the things that i that i believe take place with with teenagers right he is um he spends a lot more time in his room by himself he closes his door yeah that whole thing um i room is dark all the shades are pulled down it is cold in there like what are you a freaking vampire like all the things crazy And so some of these, you know, because I do try to broach some of the subjects of what he might be experiencing, just to let him know, been there, done that, right? You're not the only one in history that ever experienced what you're experiencing right now. I know that it can be uncomfortable to talk about it, but I'm here. And those might be one of the conversations where you were having next to each other, but not looking each other in the eye, right? That sort of stuff. But Yeah, we do talk about those things. I do try to give him as much, I think, grace as possible. for all the things that he's going through because this is also, like he's in seventh grade, this is also a very big learning curve for them too, right? And whether we like, oh, I've been through seventh grade, that's not a big deal. When you're going through it, it's a big deal. Yes. And so I try to remain mindful of that and the fact that he's going through whatever physical and...
SPEAKER_01:And the other thing that you have to do is, I did this with my son, is like, that's my wife you're talking to like you will treat her with the utmost respect or i've said this to my son like son that woman in there is the person that has loved you and will ever love you the most of anyone else and you talking to her that way that that conversation they need to know like hey man okay so bro that's that's my woman
SPEAKER_00:right like i want to tell you one one tactic i i took with him when he was one time, uh, disrespectful in what he said. Right. Uh, and it wasn't like, uh, like blatant overt, but he was disrespectful. And so I'm like, all right, well, I'm not gonna, you know, yell at you and whatever. Right. I'm going to take the time because I had to drive him somewhere to his next, um, thing anyway. So while we were driving, I bring this up to him. Okay. So here's what your mom was addressing with you. Right. And all she did was approach you and ask you for information. Okay. Um, you're mad. You're not even mad at her. You're just angry or frustrated or whatever it is. And then he's like, yes, I'm like, all right. If a stranger approached you right now, while you feel what you feel, are you going to yell at them? Yeah. And then he was like, well, no, I would just tell them whatever the, you know, I needed to tell them. And then I was like, why wouldn't you yell at that person? And he was like, well, because that's not good manners. They didn't do anything to me to deserve all of that. And I was like, so what you're telling me is that you can scrounge up enough decorum to behave decently to a stranger, but you can't gain enough of that to be respectful to your mother? Yeah. And then it was like an immediate shame that went over him. And then he was like, you're right. And I was like, well, you know what to do now.
SPEAKER_01:And that's what we tell our kids. Would you do that to Coach Minnow? No, I wouldn't talk to that. Would you do that with Trevi? You know, like they're coaches, basically. My daughter's coach, our dance coach, or my son's football coach. Because if you talk to any teacher, they're like, your kids are so well-behaved. And I was like, you know what? And what sucks about it is the reason that they do those outbursts with you is because they're comfortable talking to you like that. And that's the twofold answer, right? It's like, it's good that they can burst out at you like that, but it also sucks because it's disrespectful and they have to know that. And so part of it is, you know, and so what was funny is that when my son, he's 18 now, So he had, he had a girlfriend. He said like two kind of serious relationships. And one day I was like, son, if somebody talked to your girlfriend like that, how would you feel? Well, I'd be mad. I was like, that's my wife. You know what I'm saying? That's my woman. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, he's like, Oh. And so it was funny. Uh, when my daughter started having started dating, like when she was in high school, like 18 and stuff like that. Um, my son was kind of a ass to the boyfriends, right? Good for him. Yeah. He was just like, ah, whatever, you know, like, and then, uh, so then when he had a girlfriend, he's like, um, um, so Liana, uh, can you be nice? It was like, oh, now, now we're going to say, well, and then, oh my God, he did a one 80. He was all like shaking their hand, like other boyfriends. Hey man. You know, I was like, oh,
SPEAKER_02:okay. Now we're different. I know with, uh, with, with Isaiah, uh, Generally speaking, he's always been really respectful around me. He's pushed little boundaries here and there, but nothing of significance. But I also know that he can feel shame if he does something wrong. So if something gets brought to my attention, there's just that shame that comes into play. Like, oh, you told my dad about it, and it's not because I'm going to... hit him or anything. It's just, he just, I've seen you hit him. It's
SPEAKER_00:just different.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and so it, it's almost like a, it, it's a, it's a way to control them, but I, I don't know what I did or didn't do, but, um, I know there was one incident. Uh, I don't know. This was maybe a year ago. And his mom, uh, was like, Hey, I need you to talk to Isaiah. He just hit his little brother, uh, Um, for no reason. And then, uh, when they showed up to my house to drop them off, Lee, she was basically tearing into them in front of me and I let it go through. And Isaiah was, uh, had tears in his eyes. He was pretty crying or he was crying. And, uh, as soon as she left, I gave him a hug. Um, I let him tear it out. And then I was like, okay.
SPEAKER_01:can't do that. My boy. Yeah. Well, yeah, it was rewarded him. Yeah. I was
SPEAKER_02:like, okay, son, do you understand why your mom's upset? And why did you, why would you even hit your brother? Like, uh, why, why would you do that? And I also sympathize with him. I mean, I always hit my little brother, uh, and he was about the same difference. Uh, but at the same time, it was like, do you, do you realize that, difference in your age and how this comes into play and why doing this. And just having that serious heart to heart. But I do know that at the end of the day with me, it's more like that he doesn't want to disappoint me. And I find myself doing the same thing with my own dad. I don't know I don't know what carried over from that. I don't know if it's just a son or a son-dad thing or if
SPEAKER_00:it's a kid-dad thing. Yeah, like some subliminal biological thing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I've always been curious of that because, like, my dad, I had that fear. Like, if I get in trouble, it's going to snap.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I don't care. I'm going to tell my dad, like, oh, damn. My cousin did that. He's, like, six years older than I am. And he was used to just kind of like poking fun at me, you know, back to the goatee and all. So he's just kind of poking, poking, poking. And then one day I just fucking blew up. I was like, blah, blah, blah, blah. He's like, oh, really? I'm going to tell your dad. I was like, fuck. I was like, damn it. And I was a kid, dog. I was like probably like 11 or 12. And I just, you know, I was like, oh, man. And so I go to my dad, right? And I'm like, so this happened. You know, I was like, really? And my dad was like, okay. Like, he didn't, like, it just, I don't even know if he remembers that conversation. But I was like, you know, when you're a kid and you're like, shit, let me go face the music and whatever comes, comes, right? And I went and talked to him. I was like, look, I was talking to so-and-so and I said this and I apologize. And he's like. Okay. Move out of the way like I'm
SPEAKER_02:watching TV. My dad, I remember he would pick me up in middle school, so I was in seventh grade, and he'd pick me up at the end of the day. Well, I had got into this fight. It wasn't a fight that I picked. It was a kid that was picking the fight on me, and I ultimately fought him. Got in trouble where it was like, oh, your parent needs to sign this. Yeah. I remember getting in the pickup, and I'm, like, scared to tell my dad. And I'm like, I fought this kid and blah, blah, blah. And my dad was like, did you kick his ass? And when he said that, it was like, oh, wait a minute. I thought I was about to get in trouble. And my dad's like, no, what happened? I said, well, he followed me in the restroom, and then I just started– pushed me as I was taking a leak. He was in a wheelchair, dad, but that's okay. But yeah, I just remember my dad was like, that was the first time he was just like, if you're defending yourself, you need to.
SPEAKER_01:You need to defend yourself. We never had that conversation. I think I had those conversations more with my brothers than I ever had with my dad. I was talking about this to someone else. I was like, I'm a middle child, right? I have two older brothers, a younger brother, and a younger sister, right? And I always felt like I didn't have direct contact with my dad. It would kind of go through my older brother, my oldest brother. And sometimes, yeah, and sometimes punishment will come down from him. You know, he's like, oh, so you got to do this because, you know, you're screwing up. And sometimes he'd be like, hey, you're being a little disrespectful to dad or whatever. And I'm like... You did the same. You know, you always try to justify what you did, right? And as a kid, I was like, whatever. And I almost resented my brother more so than my dad. But, you know, and I still have that kind of relationship with my oldest brother where he can probably come over and he could probably still take that role. Like, hey. He was the man of the house in training. Yeah, exactly. And so a lot of the stuff that it just didn't feel like I could Just go talk to my dad, you know, by myself. Like I had to kind of ask management over here, you know. I was like, I'd like to set up a meeting with my father. Well,
SPEAKER_00:you know, I have mentioned this, not to y'all before, but I have mentioned this to SI, right? To the podcast? Now to the podcast. But there was a very, I think, pivotal conversation that my dad had with me When I was 13, 14, I was maybe just before 15, something like that. But I had gone out and done something, I don't know, maybe something stupid. It wasn't big because I wasn't a bad kid, but like any other teen, I was doing some things that might... be on the very edge of how many cars did you steal right nothing near that um but when he when he sat me down and and um and then told me it was this was the first time we didn't get hit for something
SPEAKER_03:yeah
SPEAKER_00:and when i was like oh man i'm gonna get beat for this right and then so we get home he calls me up and i'm like here it goes and then he brings me over to the dining room table and asked me to sit down. And I was like, what new brand of torture is this? Right. Cause I've never experienced this before. And, and then essentially what he did was he, he sat me down and we talked about it. And then he was like, you're too old for me to hit you. Yes. If you can't come to an understanding by me talking to you, Then we have a bigger problem. You got to go. Then I'm going to have to start getting
SPEAKER_02:fingernails from
SPEAKER_00:you. And then he told me his expectations, right? Like, when I'm not here, I expect you to be like the man of the house. Now, in today's society, the weight of that statement, I think, might be a bit much for a lot of these kids. But essentially, I think it holds true for what you're trying to get them to understand. He said that if something happens to me, I expect you to be able to do what I do, right? And maybe not go out and work two jobs for 18 hours a day or whatever. But the things at home, you should be able to have the wherewithal to care for your house, help your mother, do all of those things. And you can't do that if you're off doing these stupid things that you shouldn't be doing. And that was a huge change in mindset for me. It was a very pivotal moment for me. and what I started to do from that point on.
SPEAKER_02:I have to agree ultimately in the approach. I think the most significant things that I remember about my dad in terms of getting me on track were, because generally if I got in trouble, like as a little kid, something like that, it was that fear. It was that bolt of lightning from Zeus coming down kind of feeling. But there were like pivotal moments where it was more of this calm. And I remember my dad would say, hey, mihito. And my dad didn't necessarily use that word regularly. But when he said something like that, and then he would just kind of tell me the expectation and just like this calm or whatever. Like those are the things that hone in on whenever I'm talking to Isaiah. uh, whenever I'm parenting with him, it's more like, I don't want you to fear me. I want you to respect me. Right. But I don't want that. I don't want you to have that fear, uh, to come to me. And, and so finding, finding
SPEAKER_01:kind of that, that balance. And I think at this age at about 13 or 14 is the, that's the conversation I had with my son. I said, look, you know, the spanking and all that stuff, the hitting and, you know, that's, that's not happening. Like you're, I'm going to start teaching, treating you like a man, but you're going to start acting like a man. I said, if you're a man of your word and you and I decide on something, you have to do that and I'll have to do it too. And so I think that conversation happens about this time because that's when I had it with my son.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So when I, when I, when I tried to appeal to SI, right. Cause I've, I've never, hit him. I don't hit. But when he started doing certain things. You never swatted him? Nope. You're weak. We did that all the time. It's psychological warfare. That's where my battleground is. Really? Yeah. That was Liana. So whenever we talk about it, of course I appeal first to the sentiment. Do you care about the household and the people in it? Which of course he does. And then when I start mentioning now, if I'm not here for whatever reason, something happens to me I don't ask you to do these things because I want to punish you or torment you or anything like that. If something happens to me and mom needs help to maintain the household, I need you to know how are you taking out the trash and the recycling and how do you cut the grass and how do you use tools and how do you fix things around the house. So when I bring you in to come and help me fix something, I'm not doing it because I'm punishing you. You need to learn these things. These are life skills, right? And so that's the approach I try to take.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And that's, I think that's perfect. That's a perfect segue to what we're doing and kind of wrapping up the podcast. So, you know, do you have any parenting tips? I know we talked about a bunch of them, but David, do you have one or two that we can board approve, you know, to kind of cap this? this episode of chivalry chronicles?
SPEAKER_02:I think, uh, I think it would be, uh, understand that every child is, is different.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Uh, so having flexibility in, in your plan, uh, when, when parenting is, is critical.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Doctor. Yeah. There is no one size fits all. Absolutely. Um, don't rely on, um, only the information that you have with you. Read more. Learn more. Incorporate it. And even as your policies and your lives are shifting, you can absolutely incorporate those into the things that you're trying to impart on your kids. But keep talking. Keep talking to them. Be involved. and hear them out. Don't just talk at them. Talk to them. Yeah. Or with them. You mean with them, right? Well, to them. A little with them.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. My wife and my daughter were talking one day, and she got a question. She was doing something, and she said, who did you learn more from, your mom or your dad? And my daughter, and I want to say that it kind of, hurt my wife's feelings a little bit but she said dad and and um and so she said why and she said because dad explained things in detail of why i was in trouble and and i would do what you just said with my daughter and my son do you understand why mom is is upset do you understand that she had this you know expectation from you and this is what you brought and this is why she's upset do you understand so i i'm the kind of the over the over explainer And but she she would get the kind of the fury from my from my wife, you know, like Liana, you know. But I was like, this is why this is happening. And so the same thing with my son. And the good thing, though, is like sometimes I was a little harder on on on Joaquin and my wife was a little bit harder on Liana. And so sometimes I'd be like, OK, let's break it up. And I was like, oh, you're. I would tell my wife, I was like, you've been a little hard, like, you know, in the kind of an over here by the side. And then she would do the same thing with me, like, ah, you're a little hard on Joaquin, you know, you need to go back in there and just kind of smooth it over. But I think one thing, like DLH, I read a lot to kind of prepare myself for parenting, and then the books change as they get older. The other thing is, like what you were saying, is... keep talking to them yeah uh to keep those lines of communication open my daughter came back from college and she said i didn't know that my friends don't really talk to their parents you know i didn't know that they don't have dinner together every night i didn't know that you know we're as close as we are because that's all they knew and they're like we don't even they don't call home you know what i'm saying and my wife kind of I mean, she calls home every other day or every third day or whenever she gets the time, but we talk all the time.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I think if you want those things, you have to show that. You have to express love. You have to talk with your kids if we're going to change that word any, right? And then the way that you're mentioning it too, the way that you're talking about it, I do think that this may not be like for everybody, but I seem to think that universally– Men are good at the technical aspects of things. So we explain things. Women are really good for showing you the emotional side of things. Right. And so you learn a lot of your emotionality from mom. You learn a lot of the technical stuff from dad. But when you combine those together. you get emotional intelligence.
SPEAKER_01:And you get both.
SPEAKER_00:They both come together for emotional intelligence. So that you feel something, but now you know why. And what do I do with it? And where do I go with it? And I think that that's all part of the education.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. And the last parenting tip, buy some alcohol. Have a little drink after all is said. Put the kids to bed. Have a cigar. have a little whiskey, you know, and then, uh, Hey. And,
SPEAKER_00:and, and no, you're not perfect. Yeah. You're not perfect. And celebrate the small win of making it through another day. I
SPEAKER_02:appreciate both of you because I, I have, I consistently am always thinking like, am I doing enough? I don't see Isaiah enough or it's, am I enough? Am I doing what I'm supposed to be doing? And like, that's really important to me. And I appreciate you guys as well as, uh, some other bros that, uh, consistently give me that feedback. Like, Hey,
SPEAKER_00:you're a good dad. Yes. Yes. And just for the listeners too. If you find yourself constantly asking yourself that question, am I enough? Am I doing enough? All of that. Simply asking that question makes you a good parent. Correct.
SPEAKER_02:So that's board approved, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00:Board approved, sir. Board approved.
SPEAKER_01:Um, this is a good chat. Um, so we, we thank you for sticking around this long and, um, join us for the next chat on chivalry Chronicles. thanks for listening if you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast please share it with others post about it on social media or leave a rating and review to catch all the latest from us you can follow us on instagram and twitter thanks again and we'll see you next time
