The Chivalry Chronicles
We discuss topics such as Brotherhood, Masculinity, and Fatherhood. A modern manly approach to chivalry.
Or better yet, Guys Stuff that Guys Do, Cuz We're Guys.
The Chivalry Chronicles
Episode 000 - Knight Codes
- Knight Code is a set of "unwritten rules" that outline aspects of Brotherhood interaction.
- Jaime & David discuss their favorite Knight Codes.
How's it going, everyone? If by some grace of God, by some stroke of luck, you've stumbled upon this broadcast, you're listening to the Chivalry Chronicles with your hosts, Jaime, David, and DLH. Fortunately, this time, DLH is not with us, but we welcome David. thanks for having me thanks for having
SPEAKER_01:me we enjoy being here i know dlh uh you'll listen to this at a later time and uh you know i we see how you cop out on the first episode
SPEAKER_00:yeah there's a reason it's a no-show road yeah exactly exactly so uh this broadcast or this podcast is going to be you know we'll disguise basically guy stuff that guys do because well we're guys and uh This topic for today is going to be night codes. They're sometimes called bro codes. If you're a fan of How I Met Your Mother, it was in discussion on that show, which was about 10 years old. But it's basically just a set of rules that guys have a tendency to follow. These are usually not written down, but we took the liberty of writing some down. And we're going to pick some of our favorites. And I believe David has his list. I have my list, so... Without further ado, David, you want to chime in on night codes?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well, Jaime, you know, I think it's also important, you know, that outside of the more recent pop culture and bro codes coming out, of course, night codes were something that were instilled with the actual knights in the medieval time. And knowing that with our connection to the knights, it's just something that... that you actually started putting together on our Alumni Association page. And Jaime, before I... break into some of that. What prompted you to do that? Because I know I had seen bro codes, of course, got a good laugh out of some. I think some of it is probably not relevant in today's age. But nevertheless, I think it's something that had a little humor in it, but also was very... Insightful and in some things that really do stick and resonate with at least the circle of brothers that I I hang with Some of it is very relevant some of it leads to some good banter But you mind giving us like a little bit of insight like what what made you even start doing that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so So I come from a pretty big I would say in these times, pretty big family. I have two older brothers, a younger brother, and a younger sister. And when you hang out with a bunch of guys, there are certain things that you just kind of do, kind of follow, and they come from everywhere, right? So when we were hanging out, I think the first one that we talked about was just etiquette, right? Buying rounds of beer, who gets the next round? who picks up the check, that type of stuff. Sometimes it's calling shotgun. Everybody did it in high school. Everybody's going to go somewhere. There's four guys. There's one car. There's the driver. And then you call shotgun. There's rules to call shotgun. And that, I think, prompted it. And then we started kind of running into a couple of issues with... I thought some of these were... You know, pretty, pretty common. But, you know, as you meet other people from different places, I grew up in Dallas. You meet people from, you know, David's from Amarillo, San Antonio, Houston. Some people don't know. And so I thought it'd be fun to jot some of these down and then also, you know, kind of maybe enlighten some people about it. Maybe they didn't know, like, hey, you know, this has been three rounds already. You still haven't gotten one. I mean, go ahead and get up to the bar and get a round. Yeah, you
SPEAKER_01:know, not everybody knows the unspoken rules of baseball, right? You've got to be playing baseball for a while to pick up on some of those unspoken rules. And I think that's kind of what resonates with the night codes or the bro codes that you started composing and putting out there. And so just to kind of dive into it, to the first one that I chose. The first one that I chose was number 12. Number 12. Number 12. Brothers shall be faithful, steadfast, and true to the brotherhood. A brother shall leave no question regarding where he stands. I think that one's a solid, true, really resonates, really no banter in that. I think it is very important that if you really do consider each other brothers, that you gotta be transparent with each other. Right. The good, the bad, the ugly, when you're scared, when you're on top of the world. I think letting others know. where you stand, gives them some context so that if they are kidding with you and you're going through a bad situation or something, that they can make the appropriate adjustments. Because I think a lot of times when we don't vocalize something, kind of going back to the unspoken rule, we may be going through that bad day, but if we don't tell anybody, how do we expect, especially people that are close to us, to just automatically pick up up on our cues, and sometimes they do, which is really great about having brothers and family that are close to you that can recognize those things, but you do need to take that initiative to say, hey, this is where I'm at, or this is why I am getting upset. Right.
SPEAKER_00:Now, man, we got deep real quick here on this one. So, yeah, I agree. When we kind of came up with this one, It's basically what you're saying. I mean, honesty has to live within that brotherhood. It has to live with any relationship you have, whether it's your significant other, your wife, even your coworkers in your office. But especially with brotherhood and with people that you consider brothers, honesty has to live there. I mean, you can together lie to other people, but within each other, if I know where you stand and you know where I stand, then we can always figure it out. But yeah, that's a good one. But man, okay, so let me go with the one that I have. I went with Night Code 49, which we were just talking about, and I think this was the beginning of this. There was a discussion. We were like, man, I don't think people understand this scenario. So I'm going to go ahead and read it, and then we can discuss it. It says, whilst out with brothers, if you partake in more than one free beer... that when it's your turn to buy a round, you shall comply. Repeat as necessary. So normally, we all go out, right? We go to a meeting. After the meeting, we go to the local watering hole. It's an alumni association, and so I was the chairman for a long time. So what I would do as a rule, I would buy the first round. So there's five, six, whatever. Go to the bar, buy around, you know, a bucket of beers or whatever, set it on the table. And then the people that understand then go, oh, okay, I got the next one. And then it goes around for those five people. Well, you know, when it gets to that third or fourth person. It kind of skips. They
SPEAKER_01:get those alligator arms that you see in the Geico commercial, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, they're trying to reach and they can't get there. And it's like, and sometimes we understand, right? Hey, you know, you're running into some issues, you know, maybe your paycheck doesn't come in until next week. We get those. I'm not trying to shame those brothers. I'm talking about the ones that you know good and well they can pay for it and refuse to sometimes. And maybe, or just wait until the other person gets it. Sort of like the elevator rule, right? If you have four people in the elevator and one guy's having trouble breathing, everybody looks at each other to be the first to act. It kind of falls in the same scenario. And I think when we put it out there, we didn't want to just call people out because you don't want to shame them either. You don't want to... You know, kind of put them on blast. But I thought it was I thought it was a good one just because we kind of ran into that a couple of times. And I think once we wrote it, once we kind of talked about it and joked about it, then people got the idea like, oh, man, it might be talking about me. You know, I need to make that round, you know, so that's that's. I think this was the genesis of this whole thing, but that's one of my favorites.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, now kind of going off of that too, because obviously this kind of situation doesn't happen with just brothers in general. It happens with people and other acquaintances and so forth that we know, but do you personally... Does the rule apply for everybody across the board or is there levels to it? Like, what do you think?
SPEAKER_00:I think so. Like we were saying, I know some, you know, actually when we were going out, one of the brothers was like, hey, man, I'm not going. You know, I don't get paid till next week. And, you know, in that scenario, we're like, man, just come out. You know, we do want to hang out with brothers. So that to me, no big deal. Usually when you have a mixed company, I'm not going to expect somebody's wife to pay for a round. That's just kind of weird. But I think there is levels to it. And you have to be really intuitive with the people that are there and kind of understand that. Like I said, you're not putting everybody on blast. It's just those couple of people that, man, you're out here all the time. And you're getting free beers, you know, three or four at
SPEAKER_01:a time. So what's that threshold? How do you handle when they, like, what is your threshold? And then how do you handle it?
SPEAKER_00:I think the threshold is three beers. Like, if you've gone through three beers, three free beers, I think it's time to go ahead and at least get that one round. You've already gained enough, you know. I think that's my threshold. And if it happens once, no big deal. But If it consistently happens with the same person, now we have to say something. I don't know. What do you think?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I kind of go with the rule of three as well. At some point, it starts getting noticeable. I do not try to implement buying rounds for somebody if I know I'm not in a position where I could. I also don't. want to get in over my head either. So there has to be a threshold, whether I like it or not. But I kind of go off that rule of three. There's been times where I've been with somebody and they don't pick up the first tab or they run in a situation where it's like, oh, I didn't get paid or hey, I lost my wallet. Those types of things. I didn't bring my wallet. Exactly. And then it's like, okay, well, you know, I still want to have a good time. And the reason I invited you to hang out was to do that. So I'll bite the bullet on that. But I think after that third time of doing that, especially if it's a consistent one, two, three, I think at that point you really got to start pulling the plug. And I've been put in that situation and it really does suck. It's really disappointing because I know that if... My biggest thing is I like people who are genuine. And whenever I feel that you're... interested in what I have going or interested in something about me, then I'm going to open up to you. Otherwise, I usually stay pretty tight-knit and closed-lipped. I recall going out, oh, I forgot my wallet. Okay, don't worry about it. I got you. I got you tonight.
SPEAKER_00:I
SPEAKER_01:got that person. Then a week or two later, they're calling and they're asking me if I want to go hang out. And I'm saying, okay, yeah, cool. Oh, okay, well, come and pick me up. Come and pick you up to go to the bar that's by my house? That's kind of weird, but okay. Yeah, that's cool. I'll go pick you up. Pick that person up. Send them at the bar. All of a sudden, oh, I don't have any money. What do you mean you don't have any money? You invited me on. It just struck me odd. But it was even that same night that I ended up having a conversation with this person and just saying, hey, look. And I want to say he's the one that brought it up. It wasn't even something that I initiated. But he just started talking about taking... the shirt off his back to give it to anybody in need, that type of stuff. And, and I said, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm the same way. Like I, I really do. I always want to help people more than they help me. Right. And I think, I think for the most part, most people feel that way. Oh yeah. Yeah, I agree. But that night is whenever I said, you know, the first time I'm, I got you the second time. I probably got you. But by the third time, I'm really taking notice. And probably after that, I'm going to chalk it up as, hey, you kind of owe me. Not necessarily dollar for dollar. You don't necessarily owe me anything like that. It's got to be even. Yeah, you're reaching the point of abusing the privilege. Yes. And it shouldn't be a privilege to be with me. Yeah. It should be... just have interests and we have mutual interests we hang out and that kind of stuff so
SPEAKER_00:no I agree like I know you and I go out all the time and go to bars and you know even done Spartan races and stuff like that and I think you're one of the people that are really good about that almost too philanthropic I guess you pay for a lot more than you should and I try to you know we try to balance each other off so that I'm cool with um And hopefully nobody that's listening is kind of, hey, man, are they talking about me? Or, hey, you owe me. For all we know, they're like, hey, that fool owes me. Yeah, if I owe you a round, just go ahead and just at me on Twitter or something or X. Okay, so, all right, so that was you, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that was your code, but I have that on my list, too.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Okay. So it's your turn.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And I kept mine in numerical order. Okay. I jumped around. But I have number 17. 17. Number 17. Brothers shall do what they said they will do and be where they say they will be.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I mean, that's just... That's an old school one. This is something like if you have a... Well, everyone has a dad. But if you have a dad that's pretty... Pretty hardcore and old school. This is something that he would probably tell you. And as brothers, this is... I mean, like I said, I was reading through some of these. I was like, man, this is really good. I mean, that one's really good. And this is because we kind of pick and chose from different areas. And sometimes you do tap into your dad. But that, I mean... What does that say to you? Like, to me, I just hear my dad. Oh,
SPEAKER_01:yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, my dad's busting out. And it's not even necessarily a belt. It's just whatever is closest to, you know what I mean? I think ultimately whenever you're going or when you commit to something, you really need to do your very best to fight. fulfill it, right? And I know I sometimes will hesitate to say, yes, I'll be there or yes, I'll do this because for me, whenever I do say yes, like it's gonna be a yes. I may show up late because of, whatever. Maybe I woke up late or something like that. But I'm going to be there if I said I'm going to be there. I'm going to do it if I said I'm going to do it whenever it depends on everybody else. Probably from a self-help standpoint or something that I probably need to do is hold that obligation a little bit for me to myself, like the stuff that I say that I'm going to do and say it to myself and not out loud or where others are not depending on me is Sometimes I fail myself in that aspect. But whenever I say it to somebody else out loud, there's a dang good chance I'm going to fulfill it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I think part of it is, you know, you want to be a man of your word. Especially, I think this is more, or it hits different when it's your kids, right? Yeah. when your kids are like hey dad uh there's a play today and it's at two o'clock and you know i'm gonna be in it so i want you to be there right and you want to be there and then you look at your schedule and you have meetings and and and sometimes it's hard like you don't want to say i can't make it and you want to try to make it but if you tell them you will make it you better be there because, man, if you do not make it and you told your five-year-old or six-year-old or ten-year-old that you're not, that you were going to make it and you don't, that's hard, man. Yeah, those are them body blows you're just
SPEAKER_01:giving them left and right. And the other thing on that, too, is like, you know, we... kind of do it in a sales aspect, right? Whenever you commit to a client or you say you're going to do something for a client, the last thing you want to do is not meet that expectation, right? So if anything, you want to say out loud the lower expectation and shoot for that bigger... So you over-deliver instead of under-deliver. Right. And it makes a big difference, and it hits your credibility, which then, I mean, we could probably name specific brothers that it's like they're unreliable.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And flip that. We know brothers that, hey, these are our go-tos. These are our go-tos for these situations because they– they built that reputation. And there's even some, I know we've experienced in more recent years, brothers that come in, so they're not necessarily someone that we have a history or historical context with, but they come in, they really talk a really nice game. And it sounds fantastic, right? But then, you know, one, kind of going back to the the night code before where it's like you you got you got you kind of have three strikes with me yeah i don't know what yeah i don't know i guess it is the rule of three but the rule of three almost kind of sticks out to me it's like yeah everybody's gonna have a bad day everybody's gonna make a mistake everybody is not going to meet an expectation okay but but
SPEAKER_00:is there a time limit for the rule of three let's say i i i you know I got a strike, right? But it's been years. Does it get wiped away? Do I reset it after a couple of years to where I've been meeting my standard? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I think there's some validity in that because there are brothers specifically that three years ago, it's like, Everything they say or do is just throw it away because it's trash coming out their mouth, right? And with people. We obviously are referencing... brothers here, because we've kind of centered around this particular topic, but I think it applies to all situations, all people, and I think if anybody's listening to this, they're probably agreeing with that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I think it sucks for the people that start off wrong. I know I've started off wrong or on the wrong foot, and it's hard to get on that stable ground. Your first impression wasn't very good, Um, so now you got to make double time, right? You gotta, you gotta work even harder to get on that. Okay. You know what? He started off bad, but he's, he's gotten to this level now. And I think, I know I'm, I'm probably really bad at that to where I, I kind of hold that first impression longer than I should sometimes.
SPEAKER_01:Like they say, it's, it's a lot easier to, to, uh, It's a lot easier to lose respect than it is to earn it, right? So I think it's natural for us to experience one bad thing and then need double that in order to get us back into... Good graces, or to be put within our good graces. All right.
SPEAKER_00:Man, you went deep again. So let me. The deep tracks. The deep tracks. Deep cuts. Deep cuts. Okay, so I'm going to lighten it up, and I'm going with night code number 21, which is a brother cares about sports regardless of whether or not He cares about sports. So the corollary is never trust a brother who doesn't care about sports. Okay? You know, like, so no sports? Like, you have no interest in any sports? Nah, I don't do sports. When I was working at this company, it was a coworker, I met him, And so the same thing happened. I said, hey, you know, do you watch sports? He's like, no, I don't watch sports. I'd rather play sports. I was like, okay, so do you play sports? No, I don't play sports. I was like, well, what the hell? You know, it's like, so which is it? That's a sport. Yeah. That's a sport. Because I figured, you know, okay, this guy likes to go out. We used to play, pick up basketball every Saturday or we had a flag football team for like six years. So, you know, not only did we watch sports, but we also played sports. So I was like, okay, we can get on that level. But even that, you know, I haven't played sports. And well, then you don't do either um and this is a discussion I had with with a brother a while back and he's like man I don't trust guys that don't watch sports and I said you know what I don't either and so we had a good discussion about it and I didn't know what you thought about that to me I I kind of find it odd and and I think you're a little you're a little psycho yeah yeah
SPEAKER_01:that that that does give us some uh some weird vibes. You can't say that in this day and age. You can't say weird now. Yeah, you know, now that you reread it out loud, yeah, it is. It makes you wonder, but there are There are a couple of brothers, one in particular that spent a good amount of time with me for about three, four months that I got to know really well. And he just wasn't into sports. But yeah, it is interesting not to have somebody that has zero interest in sports. Or maybe not necessarily wanting to watch every game. I get that, especially with younger generations. They don't necessarily want to sit two, three hours to watch something, which I can get. Watch the highlights, get the summary, and move on with life. Yeah. So... Yeah, that can... I don't even know how to answer that other than I'm
SPEAKER_00:kind of agreeing with it. Yeah, I agree with that. I've asked them, you know, so what are you into? You know, like, what are your hobbies? You know, what do you do on the weekends? And it's always something, you know, kind of like I'm not... I'm never done or I'm not really interested in. Other times, it's cool stuff. Like, hey, I go hiking. I'm like, hey, that's cool. Like, I mean... I could see myself doing that. We did some hiking earlier this year, which was like a whole nother story. There'll be a podcast on that, definitely. So be on the lookout, Guadalupe Peak. But yeah, to me it's just, it's probably because when I grew up, we watched sports and then we'd go out in the street and play football. Or we'd gather the kids in the neighborhood and we'd go play soccer or basketball or baseball. To me, it's more of a communal thing. It's more of a let's get together and do something. And because, like I said, I grew up with two older brothers and a younger brother, we always were out doing stuff.
SPEAKER_01:But now when you say that, it kind of does bring something up that I've been reading recently as far as how kids are not necessarily playing outside. And it's more the parent's fault than it is the kid's fault, right? And so when we could go to a park growing up, there would be pickup games of something, any sport, right? So it's something to do, right? Whereas nowadays, if you're not participating in organized sports, which, by the way, is not very... It's not... It's not cheap. It's not cheap at all, so not everybody can participate in that. So, yeah, I could see where maybe a younger person would ultimately say, yeah, I have zero interest in sports because they didn't play it. They had to be inside, and they were inside. or maybe they were in band. I think kind of where I fall maybe more so is, okay, if not sports, what is the hobby or the thing that drives you? And I kind of actively think that about my son and trying to figure out exactly what really motivates him. And I see things that he has interest in, but I don't see anything that's just like, That's his thing. And maybe it's just me that doesn't know it yet, what it is. But I know for my son, it hasn't been sports. He'll play sports with me and he'll do that type of thing. But it's not like what I remember.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I think with kids and with sports, we talk about it all the time. Because you're a dad, I'm a dad. DLH is a dad. So... You know, I've watched the movie about Serena Williams was that, you know, you watch the story about Tiger Woods and how just how hard they were on their kids. And, you know, I guess you have to you have to understand, is your kid like a superstar? And when it's your kid, you don't want to be that dad like my kids, a superstar. But you also want to push them, but not too much to where they hate the sport. And so, yeah, it does have to be something like that. To me, when it comes to somebody that just doesn't look at sports at all, it's just a red flag for me. I was like, I may not want to hang out with this person. All right, what else you got? All right.
SPEAKER_01:All right. I'm going to go with... Oh, number 18. Number 18. Number 18, which is a big thing for me. This is really my number one out of all of it because it's something so practical and easy, but I don't understand or I have a hard time understanding why brothers are not doing it. And it's basically, if able, a brother shall always stand to greet another brother. Colary, a brother shall always make eye contact with greeting another brother. I think it's so simple and such an easy way to show respect to your fellow brother or to people in general, just to stand up and acknowledge them. Now, there are situations where it is hard or it's impractical for you to get up. That totally makes sense. But if you're in a position where you can get up, And logistically, you can get up because obviously not everybody can. That you do it just out of a sign of respect to that person. A lot of times you'll even hear, you don't need to get up, brother. It's all good. But that's why I know it's noticeable. Because if they're noticing that, then that shows them that I at least attempted to give them the respect that I felt they have. And it's very subtle. I don't think people actively say, oh, I'm going to just sit my butt down and not greet this person. I don't think they're actively thinking that. But at the same time, I don't know that they're actively thinking, hey, I should show this person respect by doing
SPEAKER_00:this. Okay, so... This question for you. Yeah, so I know that that's kind of how you conduct yourself and I too that's how I conduct myself but if someone doesn't get up and to greet you. Do you see it as a sign of disrespect? I see it as a rule of three. You got three attempts.
SPEAKER_01:You got three attempts to get up, shake my hand. No, you're out. I do notice it. I do notice it, but I think it's because I started to become aware of it more and more. Honestly, I don't know if I was doing it back in whenever I pledged and did the fraternity and did that kind of stuff. Maybe I didn't. Maybe I did it before that. Maybe I didn't. I don't know when I started doing it. It's just like the word ma'am and sir. I never used those words in my household. My parents never told me to say yes ma'am, no ma'am, or no sir, yes sir. At some point, I think the... the sir and ma'am came when I started working at Boys and Girls Clubs. And then I think a lot of the other stuff, like standing up and greeting someone, I think that came from the brotherhood. That's really where I think it came from.
SPEAKER_00:So this one reminds me, when I was in high school, we attended a... I went to Lamar University. It was like a summer program where you took college classes. But within that program, they gave us etiquette training. So they... We had a couple of hours of etiquette training, meaning what the place settings are, where the fork is, how to drink, to cut one piece of meat and eat, don't put your hands on the table. Basically, all the etiquette training that you could think of. And one of them was, if you're at a table and there's females at the table, when they would get up, as the male, you would have to get up. And so... 17-year-old Jaime raised his hand and was like, well, do the women have to get up when the men get up? They're like, no, no, they don't. And I was like, and why is that? Shouldn't it go both ways? And yeah, she wasn't very happy about that and basically told all the ladies, make sure you get up a lot around Jaime because he's... But I think it's part of etiquette training. I remember it also whenever I was taken, I went to a bunch of like Saturday sessions on interviewing and how to do resume writing. And that was one of the things that they said also is that when you come into a room, you shake the interviewer's hand, you look them in the eye and you sit down. When they get up, you get up. If you meet someone else, you get up. If they take you out to lunch, sometimes they have lunch interviews, you stand up, that type of stuff, to greet people. And I think for me, I was a young age, and being as naive as you are at that age, you figure everyone got this. And no, that's not the case. You know, I was telling my wife, I was like, yeah, we went to etiquette. She's like, you did what? So it's just one of those things. I think it's just a good, hard and fast route, especially for for a young man, specifically with interviewing. It's all about respect. It's all about showing, you know, you're gracious and, you know, you want to thank them for even acknowledging or. you know, bringing you in. But that was one of the things that they said to do. So I think I was exposed to it before that. Definitely with the fraternity, it was just a thing to do. Like you had to show respect to the active and stuff
SPEAKER_01:like that. And do you agree with me? So I have just kind of this thought that it's the little subtle things that make the big differences. Like when you think of... Customer service. Every business out there is like, oh, we're big on service. Like, who's against that, right? Nobody's against it. We don't. Yeah, we hate serving. So if everybody's for that, what is it that's making you stand out above everybody else? And really what I think it boils down to is just the little subtle things that went the extra step for you. So there had to have been something that said, this went above and beyond that. And I think subtle things such as standing up for somebody and shaking their hand will resonate, even though they may not even be able to pinpoint it, but it's recognized.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah,
SPEAKER_01:the
SPEAKER_00:overall package was, you checked off the marks, right? The kid wore or the guy wore a suit. which is not a thing nowadays, but for those kids out there, wear a suit to an interview. They wore a suit, they had a concise resume, one sheet resume, which is not a big thing nowadays. I do a lot of hiring and I get a lot of resumes and three or four pages and I'm like, you just graduated from college, no way you should have a three, four page. So I mean, I think that's just one of those things like, you're right, if you don't do it, you better do everything else great. you better check off every other mark. But if you check off every other mark and you also do this, it's just that extra thing that they may notice. And if it's important to them, then they'll go, hey. And even if it's not important to them, they're like, that was respectful. That kid has some home training.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think at the end of the day, what ends up happening is in the back of that person's mind, they'll even be that person that says, I can't pinpoint exactly what it was about Jaime or whoever. Right. But that's the it person for us. They match on everything else. On paper, they match. Blah, blah, blah. They got the same type of grades, all this other stuff. But there was something about this individual. And usually it's those subtle things that you do.
SPEAKER_00:All right. So now it's left up to me to lighten it up a little bit. I'm going to go with night code number 35. So it says... Brothers who are not cigar smokers shall have the common decency at the very least to pretend to understand and enjoy cigars. Corollary number one, if offered a cigar, you must attempt to smoke to completion. Corollary number two, if offered an expensive cigar and you know you will not take more than a couple of puffs, Politely decline. Be prepared to be chastised the rest of the night. So this one. So I smoke cigars, you know, on occasion, you know, a couple of times a month, once a month, you know. And when you when you start looking at their cigar etiquette, right, there's there's a way to cut a cigar. It has to be, you know, the width of a dime. Some people say some people don't. don't don't do lighters don't do uh butane lighters they do matches or they light there's like um um stuff that comes in a cigar box that you can light and then light your cigar some people are really really that strict i'm not all that strict about stuff like that i'm like if you want to do that cool i'm not gonna you know say you can't but there there are other things that I find that are important. And these are it. I think this kind of concisely puts it. Because I've had situations where you meet someone and they're like, yeah, you know, I smoke cigars and, you know, I smoke this and that. And so you're like, yeah, come over to the house. And this particular person, I gave him a cigar. He cuts it, lights it, literally took two puffs and put it down. And that was it. And this is a guy that told me all night that smoked cigars, loved cigars. And he happened to be the, he was like a friend of, I think it was my wife's, it was a high school reunion, my wife's high school reunion, and this was one of her friends, the husband. So I didn't know him personally, and my wife didn't know him personally. We just, we invited some people over after that. And so I'm thinking and going, like, what the hell? Now, at the time, I didn't really notice it because there was a lot of people at the house. But the next morning when I'm out cleaning up, I lift my grill for whatever, and there's a full cigar in there. And I'm like, oh my God, this guy did not. And that just... It frustrated me to no end, man. I was like, man, this is a perfectly good cigar. He could have just declined. He could have just said, no, don't worry about it. I don't feel like it. And I'm cool
SPEAKER_01:with that. Or, hey, you got some cheap stuff.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, can you just give me something, you know, a stick, you know, like a little branch. But, yeah, that to me is like... It's just... common decency, right? If I bring you into my house and I offer you, because, you know, people that come to my house that are good friends, you know, you and DLH, hey, whatever's in the liquor cabinet, it's yours. You know, pour it out. Oh, you never told me that. Oh, damn. Can you go ahead and pause this right now? Yeah, let me go pour it. Let me go and open my truck and give me a glass, too. You know, but if I'm smoking it, you're smoking it. I'm not going to break out really nice cigars and give you a crappy cigar. That's just That's just not right, for one. If I'm gonna do that, then I won't bring out the night cigars. But yeah, that to me, oh man, I was so frustrated, and I was like, why did this guy do that? The only reason I offered him is because he talked about it all night. He said, oh my God, yeah, I smoke Cubans, and I smoke this, and I was like, okay, cool, that's cool, let's do that. And now I'm thinking, That dude didn't do any of that. Like, maybe he was just lying. I don't know why people lie, but I don't know why that's a thing to lie about. But, yeah, I don't know if you've had any experience with that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well, for cigars in particular, no, but I do. I've seen and witnessed. I know you played in that golf tournament that we had. I don't remember if it was our tournament or one of the other alumni associations that had a golf tournament. Yeah. There's a bro who was handing out cigars. Okay. And pretty good cigars. I mean, let's say at least$5 cigars each, right? Which is really nice. And you have people taking them. And next thing you know, I'd go to the next hole and you'd see two brand new cigars just freaking... thrown on the ground like trash. And that to me is like, that's a bit disrespectful, right? Yeah, it is. Like, yes, I do agree on the portion of this night code specifically that you should just respectfully decline if you're not into it. It's totally fine. I do also know, I do sympathize with the mostly non-cigar smokers in the sense that sometimes you're puffing on that stick and then all of a sudden it just hits you really hard because you are not an avid cigar smoker. And yes, you want to be with the crowd or alongside the bros smoking cigar and enjoying that time, but Every now and then that thing creeps up on you and it just makes you feel extremely sick. So I have some sympathy for those types of folks that fall in that category, like me. But overall, I think if you're just not into it, just say that. And it goes back to that earlier night quote on the more serious side. Hey, just be upfront. Just be upfront. say where you are. It's okay that you're not. The banter that we're going to give you is going to be less than you being disrespectful.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, absolutely. I agree with that. It's one of those things that I think when you start getting into smoking cigars and even now, I think DLH um is a little bit more in in tune with the etiquette like he's a little bit more into it um i've met other brothers that are super smoke every day you know like this is my everyday cigar this is my and i'm like man i don't have one of those like i have these cigars and i smoke whenever you know like on the weekend you know maybe one uh but it's it's It's kind of cool. It's kind of a cool little hobby, but some people can take it overboard, and I get that. Yeah, to
SPEAKER_01:me, I find the equivalent of that almost like the sport of golf. Golf has all these little different types of etiquette. Some of it feels very overboard, but it also kind of goes to those subtle things that I was talking about earlier that whenever they're applied in full, you notice and you take it a bit more serious and have respect for it just because of all the written and unwritten rules that come along with it. It's not for everybody. whether golf, cigars, or any other hobby, right? But for those that really get into a hobby, it is important that you respect their game or their hobby because they're passionate about it. And when we're passionate about something, we want everybody else to kind of feel that same vibe, and they don't necessarily feel that, which is okay, but they also should have the courtesy to say, hey, this is not my thing. Like, you do you, boo. All
SPEAKER_00:right. What do you got? I think it's your turn. All
SPEAKER_01:right. Well, this one's technically my last because you did say number 49 already. But I have night code 22. 22. 22. Nice. Should the sports team you root for defeats a sports team another brother roots for? then you shall have 24 hours to emphatically. Emphatically. Emphatically, sorry.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Draw that brother's attention to that embarrassing fact.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's a great one. Go
SPEAKER_01:ahead. I love this one. Yeah, I like this one. But what's funny about this, I really try my hardest to, not to go after brothers that weren't talking mess to begin with. Okay, yeah. And if they didn't talk mess beforehand, I probably am not going to give you that Monday morning call, hey, what's up with your team kind of thing, or bother you whenever my team beats yours. Right. But then there's the brothers that... The super fans.
SPEAKER_00:I don't know what you call them because I consider myself a super fan. But I'm a super fan in the fact that I know everything you can know about my teams. And then I know some about everyone else's teams. But these people are a super fan, but a super fan that it's... not well-versed in their own team. So I don't even know which kind of, I don't know if a super fan is exact.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. No, just they're, they're, they're a fan of the wins, the win column. I mean that they're on the surface fan. Yeah. They're up
SPEAKER_02:here.
SPEAKER_01:And honestly, I see, I don't personally see anything wrong with that except when they don't shut the F up, you know? Cause after a while, it's just like, come on, your, your team hasn't beat mine in years. Like, why are you just keep whispering or yelling in my ear, especially before? Why did you take it out? Why were you going through your day and automatically thought, hey, let me carve out some time so that I can tell David that my team is going to beat his and do it in a snarky way? And it's cool. It's fun. I get it. No, it's great banter. It's what guys do. Exactly. So it comes with the territory. But, yes, at the end of the day, 24 hours I think is a good rule. So when you put the 24 hours, I thought about that too because I was like, hmm, I've carried it a little bit more, but it's
SPEAKER_00:more okay. I think it's fluid, right? Yeah. Like let's say your game was on Sunday if it's NFL or– It's a Sunday, and then you see a Monday. I think it could creep into Tuesday, but 24-hour rule, me personally, I have a 24-hour rule for my teams, right? If they had a great game and whatever, then I can revel in that fact for 24 hours. After that, I'm like, oh, on to the next one. We're done with that game, just like with a loss, right? With a loss, if it's a horrible loss, you're like, 24 hours, I'm on to the next one. I can't let that just mess up my week, you know? Yeah. I think that's why we kept it at that. But I think it can creep on into like Tuesday. Yeah. And
SPEAKER_01:I also think, too, like if he didn't happen to see that brother. Or whatever. The next time you see them, I think your window stands there. If you know, okay, yes, we played on Sunday. Monday, I'm not going to see them. But I'm going to see them at the meeting on Thursday. Guess what? Thursday is your 24-hour window. I think that's okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I think this is such a great one because this is all you've ever done, right? And I think when you're growing up, You're around a lot of people that root for the same team. And so it's a safe space, right? It's so funny. If you're around people that root for the same team, you start getting those same vibes from some people. Like, man, this team sucks. Even though you're rooting for the same team. Like, man, it sucks. We need to get rid of the coach. He sucks. And then you kind of get pockets of the same shit you would get from other people. From other fans, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I know on Twitter or whatever it's called now. X. X. Yeah. Stupid name. But anyway, they used to say, oh my, here goes 49ers Twitter again. And it's like 49ers fans that are saying fire this person or get rid of so-and-so. All the negative comments, 49ers Twitter. Poor Jimmy G. Yeah, that type of stuff. But then I... I notice the same comment whenever I creep into other teams. Oh, yeah. And so it's not 49ers Twitter at that point. Oh, this is Cowboy Twitter. Yeah. And it's the same bullshit.
SPEAKER_00:It's the same stuff. Yeah, it's the same stuff. With this, it's... So, actually, this is funny because yesterday... There's three of us that do a bet every year. So I'm a Cowboys fan, full disclosure. The other two guys is a Titans fan and a Bears fan. And we just say, whoever has the worst record, whatever team has the worst record, that person, Has to pay$100 bar tab,$100 dinner, crawfish boil, whatever, right? It's just around$100. I have a crawfish boil. It's used a little bit more. So yesterday we went to Yamagacho's with the other two, and I didn't pay, so I had a good time. And I think it's just friendly banter, right? Like, when it's us three, you know, because we're... Pretty knowledgeable fans, right? We follow the NFL. We follow football. The other two guys are pretty knowledgeable. So it's not your senseless banter, right? It's not like, oh, your team sucks. It's very detailed. Like, man, your offensive line, that left tackle is going to get rolled this week. Especially when our teams play each other. But I think it's good for one. I think it's good, friendly banter. Where it gets crazy is... If you have no skin in a game, you know, let's say it's a playoff game, right? And the Cowboys haven't done well, but let's say it's a fan from another team. And you're not even playing now. And you're still getting shit from them, you know what I'm saying? Like, wait a minute, your team didn't even make the playoffs. Why am I listening to you right now? Like, you know, you're a Giants fan, like... Yeah. I think at the
SPEAKER_01:end of the day, it gives, it gives the guys a reason to talk to each other. So talking crap to each other is, is an excuse to check and see how we're doing. Right.
SPEAKER_00:I think you're right. I think it's easier to talk shit to someone. than to say, hey, how's it going? You know, how are you doing?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, exactly. I think that's for a lot of people. And I think it's good. And I think that at the end of the day, we kind of have to see it in that light or take it from that vein. Like, hey, this brother wanted a reason to talk to me for whatever reason. And maybe they're even going through something deep and that was their outlet, right? So understanding that I think works well, but man, shut the F up. whenever your team has nothing to do with what my team does.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, I agree with that. So I think the list of NICOs was somewhere in the 30, 25 to 30 total. And we have plenty more, but I think those are the ones that we picked. David had his three. I think I had three. And I think this one was on my list too. So we'll just go ahead and end it there. This was a great discussion. I think we should revisit this podcast when DLH comes back, and maybe he has three different ones.
SPEAKER_01:He's probably going to say the same thing as I do, just more articulate. Just warning everybody, that's his mojo. Say everything I say, but say it more articulate. Yeah. Big word here, big word here. I agree with David.
SPEAKER_00:So... So we'll have other podcasts. We have another one coming out next month and the following month. And we're going to touch on a lot of topics. It's basically what we said at the beginning. Guy stuff that guys do because we're guys. This was a fun one. We didn't have DLH, so we didn't want to get too deep into it. But thank you for listening. David, do you have any parting words before I do the outro?
SPEAKER_01:No, you know what? I have yet to... I need to think of my signature karate move. Yeah, like some enlightening words of advice, some... But...
SPEAKER_00:Nothing yet. No, nothing yet. Let me develop and
SPEAKER_01:cultivate that. Let some beers sit in me. And maybe my ending will be just the crack, the crack open of another beer. I thought you meant
SPEAKER_00:crack.
SPEAKER_01:No,
SPEAKER_00:no. I was like, oh my God, we need to... No, I subscribe to that Whitney philosophy at Whitney
SPEAKER_01:Houston. Crack is
SPEAKER_00:whack. Just so you know.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, this is David. David here reminding you all, crack is whack.
SPEAKER_00:oh my god that's a that's that's great that's a great ending now so thank you for listening if you enjoyed this episode you'd like to support the podcast you know please share with others post it on your social media leave a rating review um catch the latest from us you can follow us on instagram and twitter thanks again and we'll see you next time take it easy
